Where is Hillary on Torture? msnbc

[LawDeeDah]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/where-hillary-clinton-torture

Where is Hillary on Torture?

In an editorial board meeting, she added that there “are very rare” circumstances when an exception to the no torturing rule would be needed, and “if they occur, there has to be some lawful authority for pursuing it.”

Obama attacked her on the issue in a late January 2008 speech in Denver, suggesting her position on torture even put her to the right of the then-presumed GOP nominee John McCain, who opposed the harsh tactics after being tortured in Vietnam.

But by then, Clinton had changed her position. When asked about a ticking time bomb scenario during a debate in September 2007, she categorically ruled out the use of torture. “It cannot be American policy, period,” she said.

That held as her policy, despite the fact that it initially put her in disagreement with her husband, who often cited the TV show “24” as an example of why torture is sometimes necessary.

Fact Sheet: Extraordinary Rendition
https://www.aclu.org/national-security/fact-sheet-extraordinary-rendition

December 6, 2005

Beginning in the early 1990s and continuing to this day, the Central Intelligence Agency, together with other U.S. government agencies, has utilized an intelligence-gathering program involving the transfer of foreign nationals suspected of involvement in terrorism to detention and interrogation in countries where -- in the CIA's view -- federal and international legal safeguards do not apply. Suspects are detained and interrogated either by U.S. personnel at U.S.-run detention facilities outside U.S. sovereign territory or, alternatively, are handed over to the custody of foreign agents for interrogation. In both instances, interrogation methods are employed that do not comport with federal and internationally recognized standards. This program is commonly known as "extraordinary rendition."

The current policy traces its roots to the administration of former President Bill Clinton. Following the attacks of September 11, 2001, however, what had been a limited program expanded dramatically, with some experts estimating that 150 foreign nationals have been victims of rendition in the last few years alone. Foreign nationals suspected of terrorism have been transported to detention and interrogation facilities in Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, Diego Garcia, Afghanistan, Guantánamo, and elsewhere. In the words of former CIA agent Robert Baer: "If you want a serious interrogation, you send a prisoner to Jordan. If you want them to be tortured, you send them to Syria. If you want someone to disappear -- never to see them again -- you send them to Egypt."

[Thinkingabout]

1. Looks like you have your answer. “It cannot be American policy, period,” she said.

[LawDeeDah]

3. Waffle Waffle Waffle

How about that Bill and his rendition policy? I wonder if Hillary approved of that message.

[Thinkingabout]

8. Waffle Waffle Waffle, Read Read Read

[William769]

23. Is Bill running for President?

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[LawDeeDah]

25. People refer to the Clinton years as a great economy time

and Hillary basks in that to her advantage, so why should we just take the supposed positives and leave the nasties out of the conversation of the Clinton years and the pros and cons of?

Extraordinary Rendition, under Bill Clinton. Can't run away from that, I am sorry to say to you, William.

[William769]

26. Unfortunately, you did still not answer the question.

Have a nice day.

[LawDeeDah]

28. and as Obama said in 2008 in a debate:

Sometimes I don't know who I'm running against. (meaning whether it's Hillary or Bill).

You have one too!

[AtomicKitten]

27. Apparently his resume is ...

link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5939447

... and she has a formidable campaign machine, name-recognition, and the 22 million jobs, Justices Bader-Ginsberg and Breyer, and excellent economic track record that her husband had left for us when he exited the White House. Although she might be inclined not to run on those huge successes, she should. No one believes she didn't have anything to do with it.

[Kalidurga]

35. Thank you I like Hillary much better now.

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. EXACTLY!!!

Torture cannot be American policy, period

Q: Let’s say we were to capture the #3 man in Al Qaida, and we know there’s a bomb about to go off, and we have 3 days, and we know this guy knows where it is. Should there be a presidential exception to allow torture in that kind of situation?

A: As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period. There is very little evidence that it works. Now, there are a lot of other things that we need to be doing that I wish we were: better intelligence; working to have more allies. But these hypotheticals are very dangerous because they open a great big hole in what should be an attitude that our country and our president takes toward the appropriate treatment of everyone. And I think it’s dangerous to go down this path.

Q: The guest who laid out this scenario for me with that proposed solution was William Jefferson Clinton last year. So he disagrees with you.

A: Well, he’s not standing here right now.

Q: So there is a disagreement?

A: Well, I’ll talk to him later.

Source: 2007 Democratic primary debate at Dartmouth College , Sep 6, 2007

[PoliticAverse]

2. 'who often cited the TV show “24” as an example of why torture is sometimes necessary.'

[LawDeeDah]

4. Can always trust a President that takes his cues from the TV.

[hrmjustin]

5. I believe she said she was against it.

[LawDeeDah]

6. It seems she was against it after she was for it.

I suppose she got some hefty blow back on that, and once again, changed her mind after the polling came in.

[hrmjustin]

7. She is against it and that is what matters.

[Thinkingabout]

9. Sometimes the stretch of the truth still does not change the facts, cognitive dissonance

works for some huh.

[hrmjustin]

12. Well some just don't like her and there is no changing that.

[Thinkingabout]

14. I gotcha ya.

[LawDeeDah]

10. It also matters why she changed her mind. Matters very much.

Was it because she heartfully believed that it is wrong or was it because it might have harmed her personal ambitions and being for torture isn't all that popular, unless you are a Repuglican, that is. Which does come up occasionally, does Hillary think and act more like a Republican than a Democrat?

[hrmjustin]

11. Hillary is a great Democrat and I will be proud to vote for her in the primary and general.

I voted for her 5 times already and would do it again.

Only she can read her own heart. A primary will sort this out.

[Thinkingabout]

13. Perhaps since you have brought up changing one's mind, this would be the

Proper time to bring up Warren changing from Republican to Democrat. And as you ask is Warren thinking with her lifelong republican like a Republican? Go back and ask the same questions of Warren.

Is there something you know which says Hillary is for torture? She has made a statement and it may be time for you to evolve into believing she does not like torture explained in the Geneva convention.

It is time to get this right, we do evolve in our thoughts, sometimes for the better and sometimes not.
You may never change your mind on an issue and it could be ask of you, are you remaining set in stone because it may harm you stand on an issue in the future or do you have the right to change having been presented with new facts.

[LawDeeDah]

16. Hillary's statements can't always be trusted to be true to heart.

It's common for her to change her mind as the windy polls indicate and some wonder who she Really is because of this. No core, just opportunities.

Warren is in another more just multiverse than Hillary will ever be. But keep on trying to bring Warren down, there really isn't that much. Maybe she has too much money? but, wait the Clintons have more! Maybe she was a republican in the past, but wait the Clintons act like republicans in the present and Hillary was one in the past as well! Maybe Warren made up her Native Indian story to win the senate! lol. I've seen people here on DU bring this up like it was some kind of closer. But wait, Hillary made up a story about her husband sending her and her child to a dangerous war zone in Bosnia because it wasn't safe for the President to go.! wwwwwooooah.

[Thinkingabout]

20. Hillary did not live most of her life as a Republican, voting for Reagan who thought

Last edited Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Trickle down economics was good, it had to be proven to Warren. Warren goes on about Wall Street and corporations but she also took their money. Warren has turned down Moveon so maybe you need to stop trashing Democrats.

[LawDeeDah]

22. but she did vote for the Chimperor's war

and she does take fast cash from the Goldman Sachs of Wall Street - I wonder what value each of her words come to for one of those earth shaking and revealing talkies? $300,000 for maybe a 45 minute, one hour talk of the secrets of the world - that's a nice minutely rate.

So spare me the Warren is evil because she was a republican. Warren is evil alright, to the likes of Wall Street, Wall Street which gives Hillary money.

Keep talking!

[NCTraveler]

17. I have heard that arguement before.

Hmmmmm. Where did I hear it?

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. **cough** bullshit **cough**

Torture cannot be American policy, period

Q: Let’s say we were to capture the #3 man in Al Qaida, and we know there’s a bomb about to go off, and we have 3 days, and we know this guy knows where it is. Should there be a presidential exception to allow torture in that kind of situation?

A: As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period. There is very little evidence that it works. Now, there are a lot of other things that we need to be doing that I wish we were: better intelligence; working to have more allies. But these hypotheticals are very dangerous because they open a great big hole in what should be an attitude that our country and our president takes toward the appropriate treatment of everyone. And I think it’s dangerous to go down this path.

Q: The guest who laid out this scenario for me with that proposed solution was William Jefferson Clinton last year. So he disagrees with you.

A: Well, he’s not standing here right now.

Q: So there is a disagreement?

A: Well, I’ll talk to him later.

Source: 2007 Democratic primary debate at Dartmouth College , Sep 6, 2007

[LawDeeDah]

15. Bill Clinton tortured before his adopted brother George tortured.

All in the family. I wonder what else they have done together?

[NCTraveler]

18. Seems her answer is pretty clear.

All you have to do is read. Seems some have fully grabbed on to Swift Boating techniques. She was fur it before she was agin it. Grrrrrr.

[joeybee12]

19. Where's Elizabeth Warren, the woman who can do nothing wrong, on this issue?

[LawDeeDah]

21. Here is a twitter from Warren:

https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/542445575874957313
The #TortureReport is deeply troubling. Transparency is the first step toward accountability — we must always live up to our moral values.

I couldn't find a recent one from Hillary. I could have missed it, you got something?

[joeybee12]

32. Wow...a tweet...and a hard-hitting one...

She deserves the blind adoration for sure!

[LawDeeDah]

33. Hillary must be too busy counting Goldman Sachs money to bother with a tweet.

Blind adorationals won't mind that at all.

[Union Scribe]

24. You've been shitting on Warren all day

And it's very telling.

[joeybee12]

31. Two posts is hardly all day...

I'm just sick of the blind adoration of her.

[LawDeeDah]

34. yep, me too. Oh, you mean Warren!

It is telling that Warren shakes up the Hillary camp so hard, and she isn't even trying to.

[lumberjack_jeff]

36. Where is Obama on torture?

That question is
a) more relevant.
b) answerable demonstrably through his actions.

Torture is "contrary to who we are", much like prosecuting those who do apparently is.

[LawDeeDah]

37. Executive Order 13491 -- Ensuring Lawful Interrogations

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/EnsuringLawfulInterrogations

EXECUTIVE ORDER -- ENSURING LAWFUL INTERROGATIONS

By the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, in order to improve the effectiveness of human intelligence gathering, to promote the safe, lawful, and humane treatment of individuals in United States custody and of United States personnel who are detained in armed conflicts, to ensure compliance with the treaty obligations of the United States, including the Geneva Conventions, and to take care that the laws of the United States are faithfully executed, I hereby order as follows:

Section 1. Revocation. Executive Order 13440 of July 20, 2007, is revoked. All executive directives, orders, and regulations inconsistent with this order, including but not limited to those issued to or by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) from September 11, 2001, to January 20, 2009, concerning detention or the interrogation of detained individuals, are revoked to the extent of their inconsistency with this order. Heads of departments and agencies shall take all necessary steps to ensure that all directives, orders, and regulations of their respective departments or agencies are consistent with this order. Upon request, the Attorney General shall provide guidance about which directives, orders, and regulations are inconsistent with this order.

_____________
He's been here. Where have you been not knowing about it?