Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

GiaGiovanni

(1,247 posts)
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:59 PM Feb 2013

Women shot during LAPD ex-cop manhunt had no warning, lawyer says

Contrary to stories on KFI yesterday, the two women shot were not Asian but Latinas. It was a mother and daughter delivering papers.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/08/16900348-women-shot-during-lapd-ex-cop-manhunt-had-no-warning-lawyer-says

Updated at 5:59 p.m. ET: A mother and daughter who were mistakenly shot by Los Angeles police hunting for rampage suspect Christopher Dorner had no warning before bullets started whizzing through their newspaper-delivery truck, their lawyer said Friday.

"No command, no instruction, no warning. They just opened fire on them," said Glen Jonas, who is representing Emma Hernandez, 71, and Margie Carranza, 47, in possible legal action against the Los Angeles Police Department.

"They had no idea what was going on. They're huddling, covering up and praying and hoping they're not going to die."

Both women survived. Hernandez, shot in the back, was in good condition Friday. Her daughter suffered a hand injury and is physically fine but emotionally scarred, Jonas said.
67 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Women shot during LAPD ex-cop manhunt had no warning, lawyer says (Original Post) GiaGiovanni Feb 2013 OP
Wow. They are lucky to be alive. SunSeeker Feb 2013 #1
No kidding. They are apparently not well off. GiaGiovanni Feb 2013 #3
also there are many large black men , so even then it wouldn't have been right to just JI7 Feb 2013 #8
oh, i think their paper delivery days are over.. frylock Feb 2013 #23
Me, too, and that the police officers are relieved from the duties WITHOUT pay BlueCaliDem Feb 2013 #51
Thankfully the detectives were lousy shots. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #5
Reports are many bullets in neighborhood homes and cars. HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #53
Yes last time I heard the poor elderly woman was in intensive care. sasha031 Feb 2013 #6
they have a lawyer already! robinlynne Feb 2013 #10
Hubby and I would have gotten one as well. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #57
This is beyond any possible excuse or explanation Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #2
good, the cops should be fired and hopefully they get a large amount JI7 Feb 2013 #4
Cops should not only be fired Mr.Bill Feb 2013 #9
ITA kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #29
Okay, I give up. What is ITA?. Mr.Bill Feb 2013 #35
I Suspect, Sir, It Means 'I Totally Agree' The Magistrate Feb 2013 #38
Thanks. I'm an old fart and not up on all the initial speak. Mr.Bill Feb 2013 #40
LOL! ;-) WinkyDink Feb 2013 #58
I have considered buying a dictionary, net speak to English. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #62
Found this - Mr.Bill Feb 2013 #65
Thanks nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #66
Hopefully they JohnnyBoots Feb 2013 #7
The officers involved should be prosecuted, not just fired. Lurks Often Feb 2013 #11
The officers should be charged with attempted murder Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #12
I hope they sue the hell out of 'em, FourScore Feb 2013 #13
Wow. Kind of tips LAPD's hand as to how DirkGently Feb 2013 #14
There are only two ways he survives. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #22
This pic supports their allegations rocktivity Feb 2013 #15
Ambushed. Benton D Struckcheon Feb 2013 #17
Just like an organized crime hit. n/t woodsprite Feb 2013 #30
Wow - COWARDS RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #26
I don't see how in the hell two Latino ladies could have been mistaken for Dorner. nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #16
From the story it seems they mistook the truck, not the ladies--I doubt... Moonwalk Feb 2013 #28
Not understandable and not forgivable in the least. That wasn't a checkpoint in Afghanistan. nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #31
Totally understandable--by that I mean, we can UNDERSTAND why they did it-- Moonwalk Feb 2013 #32
My definition and your definition of the word "understandable" must be diametrically opposed.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #33
Why do you even bother responding with that tripe? Act_of_Reparation Feb 2013 #41
Thanks for your concern. Enjoy your stay. nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #42
"Understandable?" Absolutely not. Anyone that quick to fire dozens of shots without a positive ID PA Democrat Feb 2013 #64
Thanks for your consideration tama Feb 2013 #39
Try not drinking heavily while you post.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #43
Yup, I'm drunk tama Feb 2013 #44
Whatever. nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #45
No, not "whatever" tama Feb 2013 #46
You appear to be saying that shooting up innocent people would have been OK in Afghanistan Fumesucker Feb 2013 #47
If you look at the post he responded to, you might read it a different way. MH1 Feb 2013 #49
Actually I read the entire exchange, including a couple of more replies up to "whatever" Fumesucker Feb 2013 #50
A simple tag check before shooting would have indicated it wasn't Dorner. HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #54
Donner is a terrorist. These women are lucky the LAPD does not yet have armed drones. Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #18
+1000 RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #24
LIke old school gangsters, I hope the ladies can retire to Hawaii SaveAmerica Feb 2013 #19
This is the MO of LAPD and has been ever since I've lived around them, first in North Hollywood and plethoro Feb 2013 #20
Cars not bulletproof? rickyhall Feb 2013 #21
fuck tha police frylock Feb 2013 #25
They were delivering papers a few houses away from one of the men Beaverhausen Feb 2013 #27
Since when do police just shoot without warning, without attempting arrest? WinkyDink Feb 2013 #59
A "hot stop" was in order nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #61
Unbelievable Catherine Vincent Feb 2013 #34
I can't even imagine the trauma.. I know it would Cha Feb 2013 #36
so much for "good guys with guns". Terra Alta Feb 2013 #37
Let's not confuse the LAPD with good guys kudzu22 Feb 2013 #52
And we wonder why the LAPD has such a bad reputation davidpdx Feb 2013 #48
You are not nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #60
The corrupt LAPD is only harming their officers on the street Dawson Leery Feb 2013 #55
"Had no warning?" I believe "If you live in the LAPD, consider yourself warned." rhett o rick Feb 2013 #56
Trust authority. Psephos Feb 2013 #63
Women to get "car donation": steve2470 Feb 2013 #67
 

GiaGiovanni

(1,247 posts)
3. No kidding. They are apparently not well off.
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:08 PM
Feb 2013

Their attorney was on KFI and even the hard-core drive time hosts offered to send money for a new truck.




http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-manhunt-shootings-newspaper-carriers.html

"The problem with the situation is it looked like the police had the goal of administering street justice and in so doing, didn't take the time to notice that these two older, small Latina women don't look like a large black man," Jonas said.

Officials seeking Dorner describe him as black, 6 feet tall and weighing 270 pounds.

"We trust that the LAPD will step up and do the right thing and acknowledge that what they did was unacceptable, and we'll deal with it," Jonas said.

JI7

(92,822 posts)
8. also there are many large black men , so even then it wouldn't have been right to just
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:13 PM
Feb 2013

shoot based on "large black man" type of description.

i saw on guy on the news yesterday who people suspected could be the guy. he was black and large but otherwise looked nothing like dorner. i felt bad for him but he just seemed kind of relieved he was ok then. i'm pretty sure someone like him is used to dealing with cops just based on being a black man. but in this case he could have easily been killed by some incompetent like the cops who shot at the women.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
23. oh, i think their paper delivery days are over..
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:01 PM
Feb 2013

I hope they sue LAPDs balls to the wall.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
51. Me, too, and that the police officers are relieved from the duties WITHOUT pay
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:04 PM
Feb 2013

and indefinitely. WE can't have shoot-first-ask-questions-later Rambo-wannabes patrolling our streets. This incident is inexcusable (although many here are trying to do just that - make excuses for these imbeciles).

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
5. Thankfully the detectives were lousy shots.
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:10 PM
Feb 2013

That is good for the women, LAPD...not so much.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
53. Reports are many bullets in neighborhood homes and cars.
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:04 PM
Feb 2013

Those cops may have broken every rule in the book, and should not only be fired but have criminal charges filed.

sasha031

(6,700 posts)
6. Yes last time I heard the poor elderly woman was in intensive care.
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:11 PM
Feb 2013

I hope they sue they hell out of the LAPD, no one is safe in S Ca.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
57. Hubby and I would have gotten one as well.
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 08:43 PM
Feb 2013

If Los Angeles is bright, they will pick up the medical costs, get them a brand spanking new truck and settle out of court...it will be cheaper that way.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
62. I have considered buying a dictionary, net speak to English.
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 08:55 PM
Feb 2013

The scary part is...they make them.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
11. The officers involved should be prosecuted, not just fired.
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:19 PM
Feb 2013

It is inexcusable and unacceptable for police officers to open fire without seeing a visible threat or identifying the person. Those poor women looked NOTHING like the suspect.

Unfortunately the likelihood of them receiving something other then a proverbial slap on the wrist is small.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
14. Wow. Kind of tips LAPD's hand as to how
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:35 PM
Feb 2013

... they're going to handle this guy if they find him.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
22. There are only two ways he survives.
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:56 PM
Feb 2013

1. Arrested by police in another state for another reason, then discovering his identity while already in custody.
2. MAYBE if the FBI gets ahold of him first.

rocktivity

(44,935 posts)
15. This pic supports their allegations
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:36 PM
Feb 2013

Last edited Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:27 PM - Edit history (1)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef017d40da0bf1970c-640wi

Note that the truck is still in the middle of the street -- they weren't even asked to pull over.


rocktivity

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
28. From the story it seems they mistook the truck, not the ladies--I doubt...
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:47 PM
Feb 2013

...they saw who was driving. It was predawn (still dark) and these guys were guarding the home of someone who they thought the killer was targeting. They see a truck moving slowly, no lights on--meaning that it's not only hard to see the truck (it's color, etc), but who is driving it. They assume it's their guy come to kill those they're guarding. And so they start shooting.

All of which makes what they did a little more understandable if not forgivable.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
31. Not understandable and not forgivable in the least. That wasn't a checkpoint in Afghanistan. nt.
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:23 AM
Feb 2013

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
32. Totally understandable--by that I mean, we can UNDERSTAND why they did it--
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:55 AM
Feb 2013

On edge, on guard duty, on the look out for a killer with a lot of deadly weapons and willing to shoot and kill police. To these guys they *were* at a checkpoint in Afghanistan--on the look out and prepared for someone they saw as a terrorist armed to the teeth and ready to kill them all.

Now, were they right to think that way? In a quiet Torrance neighborhood, no. They weren't right to think that way; it made them trigger happy, made them forget their training, made them paranoid and irrational. And, hence, they shot up a truck driven by two innocent women.

But I don't see how any of that makes what they did beyond understanding. It's very easy to UNDERSTAND why they started shooting. If we can understand why psychotic killers kill or terrorists plant bombs or soldiers under great stress might go on killing rampages we can certainly understand why these police started shooting.

That is what I meant by "understandable." Did you think I mean something else, because your response wasn't reasonable given what I said.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
33. My definition and your definition of the word "understandable" must be diametrically opposed....
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:12 AM
Feb 2013

....if you think that's "unreasonable", so be it.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
41. Why do you even bother responding with that tripe?
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:15 AM
Feb 2013

If you have no intention of qualifying your opinion, what's the point?

He wasn't excusing their actions. He was just trying to figure out why the cops would have done something like this. You deride him for showing a little empathy? Christ, how childlish.

PA Democrat

(13,412 posts)
64. "Understandable?" Absolutely not. Anyone that quick to fire dozens of shots without a positive ID
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 08:58 PM
Feb 2013

has no business in uniform. NONE.

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
39. Thanks for your consideration
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:09 AM
Feb 2013

for people in Afganistan etc. Otheristans killed and maimed at checkpoints.

We others are so much less human that Americans, thanks again for reminding.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
43. Try not drinking heavily while you post....
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:48 AM
Feb 2013

....so that others can understand what you're trying to say.

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
44. Yup, I'm drunk
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:52 AM
Feb 2013

But can you imagine how some guy in Afganistan whose loved ones were killed at US checkpoint would read your comment: "That wasn't a checkpoint in Afghanistan."

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
47. You appear to be saying that shooting up innocent people would have been OK in Afghanistan
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:44 AM
Feb 2013

That's the way I took your words anyway, perhaps you meant what you said in some other way though.

MH1

(18,939 posts)
49. If you look at the post he responded to, you might read it a different way.
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:08 PM
Feb 2013

It probably would have been better if he'd said "war zone" instead of "Afghanistan".

From the post he replied to:

It was predawn (still dark) and these guys were guarding the home of someone who they thought the killer was targeting. They see a truck moving slowly, no lights on--meaning that it's not only hard to see the truck (it's color, etc), but who is driving it. They assume it's their guy come to kill those they're guarding.


Then claims this makes the cop's actions "understandable".

I'll admit, I haven't read all these details in the news. But this is the argument being made: that the cops were justified in shooting up the truck because it was dark (couldn't see who was inside) and truck was moving toward them with no lights on. Now, put yourself as an army private at a checkpoint in a war zone, and a car is coming toward you with its lights off. No, you probably aren't supposed to just start shooting (I seem to remember a bad case where that happened, and it was awful), but if we are talking understandable it is closer to that realm in a war zone. But in a residential neighborhood? WTF?

That's how I read it. I can see how others would read it differently. But I try not to assume the worst of other posters, when it is more likely just that their point was badly stated.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
50. Actually I read the entire exchange, including a couple of more replies up to "whatever"
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:40 PM
Feb 2013

It was the dismissive "whatever" that prompted my reply to an earlier post.



 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
54. A simple tag check before shooting would have indicated it wasn't Dorner.
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:19 PM
Feb 2013

Paper deliverers drive about 10 mph. There's no evidence to suggest they were fleeing. And the women's lawyer says there was no command to stop, and I assume the cops didn't turn on their flashers or sirens. It was an ambush, plain and simple, and the cops had the wrong persons.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
18. Donner is a terrorist. These women are lucky the LAPD does not yet have armed drones.
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:08 PM
Feb 2013

Which, in case some are still confused, is the reason others of us are freaking appalled at this whole "It's okay to kill Americans if you think they are bad" argument.

SaveAmerica

(5,342 posts)
19. LIke old school gangsters, I hope the ladies can retire to Hawaii
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:52 PM
Feb 2013

or some other tropical location with the money they should win after this treatment.

 

plethoro

(594 posts)
20. This is the MO of LAPD and has been ever since I've lived around them, first in North Hollywood and
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:33 PM
Feb 2013

then West Hollywood. I have seen Rampart Division do things that I could not believe. They shot these women in cold blood and I hope they fry for it.

Beaverhausen

(24,669 posts)
27. They were delivering papers a few houses away from one of the men
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:22 PM
Feb 2013

Threatened in Dorner's manifesto. I guess the cops just assumed it was him. I hope the women recover fully.

Cha

(315,169 posts)
36. I can't even imagine the trauma.. I know it would
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:00 AM
Feb 2013

be bad. So lucky to be alive and I hope they get well compensated for being shot by the police.

Terra Alta

(5,158 posts)
37. so much for "good guys with guns".
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:03 AM
Feb 2013

Thank God these women weren't killed. I hope they get a nice settlement from the LAPD, and be set for life financially.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
48. And we wonder why the LAPD has such a bad reputation
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:49 AM
Feb 2013

I thought I had read there was another shooting like this where someone was mistaken for the guy they are looking for. Is that the case or am I confusing the two situations.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
60. You are not
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 08:52 PM
Feb 2013

Thankfully weapons skills by LAPD are way deficient. In that case they missed, badly.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
56. "Had no warning?" I believe "If you live in the LAPD, consider yourself warned."
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:32 PM
Feb 2013

Does the Constitution even mention "warning before shooting". Jeez.

Psephos

(8,032 posts)
63. Trust authority.
Sat Feb 9, 2013, 08:57 PM
Feb 2013

High power, large-capacity, semi-automatic and automatic weapons should only be in the hands of those who can be trusted to use them responsibly, and not fall prey to hot emotion.

Like the police.

steve2470

(37,468 posts)
67. Women to get "car donation":
Sun Feb 10, 2013, 12:31 AM
Feb 2013

LAPD Chief Charlie Beck arranges car donation for women whose truck was shot by police in Torrance, mistaken for Chris Dorner's truck

https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/300448711987822593

10:38 PM - 9 Feb 13

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Women shot during LAPD ex...