I have a question about the ICE shooting in Houston

[senseandsensibility]

Are people, regardless of their "status" required to stop for unidentified vehicles that are trying to get them to pull over?

I mean, it could be anybody. How are you supposed to know that it is law enforcement? The victim's son said that his father would definitely have pulled over if he knew it was law enforcement. He said they had discussed it and his father knew the danger of not complying with the authorities.

The congressman who represents this area of Houston appeared on CNN and said that no one in that neighborhood is going to pull over for just random plain cars aggressively trying to detain them. He said that too many people are carrying guns and it's too dangerous to do so.

I really think this question should be answered.

[bucolic_frolic]

1. I don't think there's any standard rec procedure

Proceed to local police station was at one time the best idea.

Then, call 911 and ask them if you're being followed and advise them you are complying.

Warning signals is prob not a bad idea, it acknowledges you are aware. Then drive slowly.

There is no way to distinguish between unidentified federal agents and criminal highwaymen, during the moment of pursuit.

[LeftInTX]

7. I think it's incumbent on them to use good judgement.

Yes, ummarked vehicles pull people over, but there are procedures. It depends on their target too? Someone who they have a warrant on and the person knows they have a warrant.

Red light, speed traps and DUI traps? I would think in this case, the cop would be in uniform. And I would think if the person sped up, it would not be a good sign to the cop. But if the person pulled into a populated area for safety, that would be a reasonable thing to expect. I think it's reasonable to expect vehicles to seek for "safety first". However, if the driver becomes reckless in response, then it probably ups their ante. Even with a potential "fleeing suspect", police officers need to think "safety first".

For instance, if there is an Amber Alert out and an unmarked vehicle spots the wanted vehicle, it can reasonably assumed that they have a right to pull the person over and if the person flees, it is not a good sign to officers. Same with APBs.

[erronis]

10. None of these really work.

If I'm being tailed by someone flashing lights at me I am not going to pull over to ask to see their uniform. My mother was chased down Wisconsin Ave. in DC by two men who were not interested in giving her a ticket.

When you're driving and confronted by a terrifying situation, how can you not drive a bit erratically? Looking for a safe place to pull over? Wondering how far the nearest police station is? Lights flashing and aggressive driving from behind?

We're expecting the driver to know there is an "Amber Alert" and therefore to yield to anyone that wants them to stop their car?

There's got to be a much better way than to let wannabe thugs (and official thugs) hijack our rights.

[LeftInTX]

11. If there is an Amber Alert with your lic plate number, it is assumed you are the abductor. Same with APBs

Amber Alerts literally flash the lic plate number all over the place. "Toddler missing License Plate YXG 5444", it is safe to assume that the missing toddler is in your vehicle or that the missing toddler was in your vehicle.

Example of Ambert Alert w/suspect and lic plate #

However, if you have been drinking and weaving in and out of traffic and suddenly you speed up to 100 mph because an unmarked vehicle wants you to pull over, they will chase you.

[cab67]

14. unmarked police cars still use sirens and lights when pulling people over.

[some_of_us_are_sane]

21. That happened to me, cab67

Driving home at 4:00am from a volunteer position at a suicide prevention phone shift in 1980 or so, an UNMARKED car put on a red flashing light attached to its roof and signaled for me to pull over.

I was lucky.


It WAS a policeman who was sitting at the bottom of a hill where the speed limit instantly changed from 45 to 25. (Yes, it was a great place to write up tickets) and I was soooooo very tired.

I rolled down the window part way, showed my license and told the officer where I was coming from and explained how very tired I was and apologized profusely.

He left me off with a warning and said to drive home carefully.

TODAY i WOULD NOT PULL OVER. Too many nuts out there.

[LeftInTX]

23. Even if you had looked for safe spot to pull over, I doubt he would have harmed you.

I understand the fear because there are LE impersonators out there. I would have turned on my flashers and found the safest spot. Even a private driveway would be enough to scare off a predator.

[cab67]

15. drive slowly?

I assume you mean "drive slowly after it's been established that one is being followed by law enforcement or federal agents."

[LeftInTX]

2. There are subtle ways to tell. But from what I see of ICE, their vehicles just look like run of the mill.

https://www.thetexastrialattorney.com/blog/2017/june/how-could-you-really-spot-an-unmarked-cop-car-in/

[sop]

3. Given what happened after ICE pulled the van over, why would anyone want to do the same in the future?

[LeftInTX]

6. That's true. I don't know too much about the shooting.

I guess ICE forced him over by using more than vehicle?

[bluestarone]

4. I'm not sure. To me that if the do NOT have the police type flashing lights, and it's umarked

I would NOT stop. I would like to see bills voted on that DEMAND emergency vehicles of ALL kinds, number one be MARKED accordingly, two, use of warning lights of the same nature of what Americans are used too. This should be attempted BEFORE election, so people can vote accordingly. If they vote no, then vote them OUT!

[RB77]

5. Were they wearing masks?

20 years ago, - if someone in an unmarked car, wearing masks and packing guns tried to force a person to pull over and that person was armed and shot them it would be ruled as self defense. All this person did was refuse to stop, - it cost him his life.

[erronis]

12. You're driving a car and being tailed by someone flashing lights. Can you tell if they are wearing masks?

[LeftInTX]

8. Here is this video. You have the right to verify.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pEAqUKm3JTg

https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/undercover-or-imposter-how-to-tell-if-unmarked-vehicle-is-law-enforcement/

I guess if there is an APB out on your vehicle, you may lose those rights, but that I don't think there was an APB out on this vehicle.

[dalton99a]

20. +1

[hlthe2b]

9. Yes... Definitively...

[cab67]

13. No rational person would pull over for an unmarked vehicle.

Unmarked police cars are still required to use their lights and sirens when pulling someone over.

This was unspeakably stupid of the ICE agents, and it speaks to just how poorly trained they are. I don't own a gun, but lots of people do, and if they think a crazy person is chasing them for an unknown reason, they might decide to defend themselves.

[LeftInTX]

16. So they had nada, zilch identifiers?

I haven't had time to follow this case indepth. However, I have seen them in unmarked vehicles and some of the vehicles look that usual junk off the street.

[cab67]

24. That's my understanding.

Unmarked police cars have sirens and lights. The lights are usually built in these days, but I suppose some still use the red light one can affix to the roof of the car while driving.

The vehicles driven by ICE didn't have these.

[flamingdem]

17. Ice thugsters are dumb and incapable of thinking

of the other person's point of view.

Tragic endings are the result.

[niyad]

19. Oh, they are capable of thinking. . thinking how they are going to

murder their victims and get away with it. Thinking how much they can terrorize people.

[niyad]

18. Women, especially, are probably not going to pull over.. There have

been too many instances of rapists pretending to be leo's. We had several here in my city.

[LeftInTX]

22. Here's video. It looks like 2 ICE vehicles followed him, then got in front of him and boxed him

while he was driving.

I see no evidence that he rammed his vehicle into an ICE vehicle. It looks like his vehicle "jumped the curb" or entered a shallow driveway to possibly to avoid the other vehicles. I wouldn't be surprised if he thought it was road rage.

So if ICE has any standards, I don't see them going on here. Do they even have standards? I have no idea

More here too:
https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/deadly-ice-shooting/new-video-ice-houston-shooting-deadly/285-a3753438-1fb0-4e7c-8e7a-6b1f5bb2645a