The deaths of Rob and Michele Reiner seem to be hitting me unusually hard.

[LuckyCharms]

When I think of Rob Reiner, I think of his role as Michael Stivic, rather than as an incredible movie director/producer. I certainly recognize and appreciate his incredible accomplishments in the film industry, but my first and most endearing thoughts of Mr. Reiner relate to his role of Michael Stivic.

Like many people my age, I was glued to the television every week to watch All in the Family. I loved that show. Even at that young age, I recognized the show for what it was...a satirical look at the polar opposite mindsets of a lovable but bigoted man (Archie Bunker), and his progressive, peace loving, anti-war son-in-law, Michael Stivic.

Reiner's character in All in the Family was not one of a full-fledged "hippie", but he had a hippie mind set of sorts. A progressive mindset. He played a big, loping intellectual of a man. A smart and caring man. A man who thought about things.

His character reminded me of several male figures in my young life. Smart men who taught me things.

We rented a room to a teacher named Wayne, who spent a lot of his valuable time tutoring me in school subjects that I was having difficulty with. He would spend hours with me every night. He received no payment for tutoring me, he did it because he loved to teach. He was a cool dude. He was very progressive, like Michael Stivic, and his mannerisms and way of talking were uncannily similar to Reiner's Stivic character.

My friend's older brothers also had friends that reminded me of Reiner's character. Big, strong men with gentle souls. Men who would take me under their wings, and talk to me about things that would challenge my yet undeveloped young mind...politics, astronomy, etc.

So I could relate to Michael Stivic with fondness. And Reiner played his character so well, that Rob Reiner WAS INDEED Micheal Stivic to me. He influenced my thought processes, and he made me smile. And as it happened, Rob Reiner the man, evolved into a person who held intelligent and progressive views. A wonderful human being.

Like many of us. Mr. and Mrs. Reiner fell victim to the harsh realities of the world. It happens to the rich and famous, as it happens to the rest of us. It's inescapable, no matter your position in society. Perhaps they were victims of a system that couldn't help their son Nick. A system that isn't set up to help people with human problems. Those with mental health issues. Those with addiction issues.

The deaths of the Reiners, along with the Brown and Bondi shootings, made for a sad and reflective few days.

Life could be so much better, if we had a "better" society, a society that puts the human being first. A society with an emphasis on safety nets.

[Irish_Dem]

1. I tossed and turned about the murder last night for a while.

How they were killed, and what they went through.
The deaths were just a culmination of a very rough time with this son.

And if they cannot get help and stay safe, what about the rest of us.

Then I was thinking about what safeguards could have been put into place.
Could they have been safe?

I think they would have needed to press charges against him for past crimes.
Get him into the criminal justice system.
And then get an armed guard 24/7.

But they were in denial about how dangerous he was.

[LuckyCharms]

2. I've been reflecting on that as well.

I know absolutely nothing about the dynamic between the parents and their son, but intuitively, I can imagine that it is very difficult to think that a person that you birthed is a danger to you...even after several in-your-face examples that scream out to any other person besides the parents that says "this person is dangerous".

[Irish_Dem]

4. I am a retired mental health professional and have seen a great deal during the 40 years I was working.

I had to set up safety plans many times.

The biggest problem is that I think the Reiners were in denial about how dangerous their son was.
I even read that the therapists warned them, saying their son was lying and manipulating them.

They should have started calling the police when he destroyed their property, the cars, the guest house.
I am sure he stole money from them too.
They should have pressed charges.
He may have gone to prison which would have kept people safe.

And then they needed security guards, which they could afford.

I am glad this guy did not kill his sister or siblings.
They were heirs to the estate which he wanted.

[LuckyCharms]

5. I agree, but I think their assumed denial would be the natural reaction of a parent...

and that a strong third party, whether a mental health professional or a strong and influential friend, would be needed to break the natural parent/child relationship that exists and step in forcefully to enable the parents to see, without blinders, exactly what is happening.

To break the "but he's my son" thinking.

I'm just speculating on all of this though, without any real knowledge of the exact dynamic.

[Irish_Dem]

21. Yes they were in some denial.

But they did have enough awareness to ask Malcolm Nance for advice.
However they either did not follow the advice, or Malcolm is more military oriented,
not domestic violence.

[mucifer]

36. What Malcolm Nance said on the

Stephanie Miller Show was unfortunately well meaning but not good advice.

It’s so sad. 😞

[Irish_Dem]

37. I was afraid of that.

Domestic violence is way different than military strategy.

[OldBoss]

13. I agree ...

My 54yo sister is a statistical anomaly, she’s been an opiod and benzo abuser for 30-years. She’s the most unhappy and miserable person you’d ever meet. She’s been in and out of jails and prisons, hasn’t had a job in over 10 years, and would be homeless if my parents didn’t pay for her rent and other necessities. She’s a master manipulator. She constantly threatens suicide. The impact it’s had on my parents over the years shatters my heart every day. Shame and guilt are powerful motivators. In hindsight, tough love could’ve been helpful 20 years ago - but it’s too late now. Her suicide threats are veiled so when my parents have called the police for a 72-hour hold, they technically can’t do anything because the threat wasn’t explicit. It’s crazy.

Yep, this afflicts everyone - wealthy and not wealthy. And the only programs we have are voluntary. If someone doesn’t want or won’t seek or accept help, there’s really not much anyone can do.

[Irish_Dem]

22. Yes very sad situations.

Reagan and the GOP destroyed the US mental health system.
It has taken a long time to try to build it back.

Your parents should get into counseling for support.

[erronis]

31. The US mental health care system has never been in good health.

I'm not disagreeing with the further destruction, but we (the US) have never/ever treated MH as important as any other disease/disability.

If we ever get universal health care (like most of the civilized world) it should cover us from the bottoms of our feet to the top of our heads (and perhaps our auras also). And physicians should not be specialized to the degree they are now.

[Irish_Dem]

34. I agree.

The mental health system here in the US was never great.
But it was destroyed in the 80's by big business who wiped it out.

[róisín_dubh]

35. My sister was like this when...

She was in her 20s. It enraged me to no end, because she had money thrown at her to keep her from being homeless or in jail, whilst I got fuck all from anyone despite holding down a job and studying for my Masters.
I never had kids in part because of her. She was such a horrific person because of her addiction and narcissism and I knew I could not love someone like that. Even if it was my own (I’m a deeply flawed person in other ways).
Then she got pregnant and when she ended up in jail, something odd happened- as my husband at the time prepared to possibly adopt the baby so it wouldn’t go into foster care- the judge used this as a teaching experience that, amazingly, worked. He released her. She had the baby. She stopped being a shithead junkie and thief and became a relatively normal (relatively is doing a lot of heavy lifting) human being.
She’s still a narcissist and her kids are going to need therapy. Her relationships with people are deeply problematic.
But she’s not a threat to anyone anymore.

[Clouds Passing]

11. Illegal drugs are so heinous in this day, they could make anyone snap at any time.

The brain cell rot which comes from chronic drug and alcohol abuse can turn a once sweet smart being into a vicious killer.

I’m so very thankful my son didn’t get that far gone.

Do everything in your power to keep your kids and grandkids into healthy activities and off drugs.

[dickthegrouch]

27. I imagine there's a degree of embarassment involved too

Making family things so public in terms of prosecutions is incredibly hard when family is involved.
The press would be all over it and the victims get judged in public opinion as much as the perpetrator does in court.
For the wealthy, or well-known, that can be perceived as an huge barrier to getting asll the help they need.
The press is suppressing all the wrong things and highlighting the wrong things too for the prurient entertainment of the otherwise ignorant masses.
When we get back to actual news, and provide support rather than condemnation for the unfortunate among us, we'll be back on the road to an healthy society.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. I feel the same way.

[PCIntern]

6. I know what you mean

He had a genius imbued with real humanity.

[LuckyCharms]

7. Yes, and he was vulnerable, like the rest of us.

[Paladin]

8. I am comforted by the Reiners' final, enormous gift to this nation.

Exposing trump for the lowlife, deranged piece of filth that he is, and always will be. No monument that trump builds for himself will ever come close to the honor the Reiners have established for themselves.

[GreatGazoo]

9. Bad things can happen to good people

The first day of lifeguard training they told us "When you swim out to someone who is drowning (in the Pacific ocean) they are going to be a full panic. They will try to get on top of you to survive. They can drown YOU and then nobody gets saved. Don't let them."

That is true with addiction and all the harder when the addict is your child. Hard to find healthy boundaries. Hard to enforce them. Hardest of all to know that you are making the best choices under extreme circumstances.

So many parts of the Reiner event have touched us all.

[cer7711]

10. Kudos to you for this post.

First: long-distance hugs to you.

Secondly, you have expressed very well how many of us are feeling at this moment.

Thirdly, I'd like to share a thought/comment: Rob Reiner's impact on our culture will be long-lasting and for'er green and bright.
He was indeed a kind, gentle, intelligent and large-hearted man; with a laugh that could shake the rafters. He delighted in pulling the best out of others.

Let us cherish the art he gave us and the example he set in the 78 years he spent on this planet modeling empathy and decency to others.

[yardwork]

12. It is hitting me hard, too.

There are a lot of reasons.

First, Rob Reiner and his wife were very good people - talented, kind, intelligent, generous - at a time when the opposite kind of people have taken over our country. That the Reiners would be killed feels especially awful. How could this happen to such good people?

Second, that they were killed by their son after years of trouble. Many of us have children who are struggling. Many young people are struggling now for many reasons. We worry about them and often feel helpless. We can relate to what the Reiners were going through and then this horrifying, mind boggling end. Not relatable. Jarring. Unreal feeling.

Finally, Trump's insertion of himself. I think it's a last straw for millions of us.

There's a particular age group that is most likely to be a fan of Rob Reiner and his work, and most of us on DU are in that age group. As a late-stage boomer (Generation Jones) I am right in that group.

This is a loss of a public figure that will remain memorable. People of certain ages remember when Buddy Holly was killed. I remember the plane crash that killed most of Lynyrd Skynyrd. We remember where we were when we learned that John Lennon was killed.

This has hit me hard.

[mountain grammy]

15. Yes, well said. Thank you.

and yes, many of us have children who struggle.

[LittleGirl]

17. Hey fellow Joneser!

I too am in that group. I fell in love with Rob Reiner in high school. I was watching Archie Bunker while I was learning civics. He was the voice of reason to me. Especially when I was surrounded by a bunch of Hoosier Hillbilly racists. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[yardwork]

24. Same here, only I was in bright red Heart of Ohio.

I might be one of two people in my HS Civics class who didn't think that the U.S. should invade Angola (because communism) but hey, Meathead agreed with me!

[debm55]

14. Me too, LuckyCharms. It was like a part of our youth was taken away.

[twodogsbarking]

16. As far back as high school I was saying we are no longer a society. We are an economy and military.

Saying that in HS in the 60s got me in trouble. When I fight authority authority always wins. I come out grinning.

[yardwork]

25. We fought the law and the law won.

At least there was law back then.

[Attilatheblond]

18. As hard as it hit all of us, I worry about how it hit a man who knew his dad well, and possibly knew Rob Reiner as a kid

That man just turned 100 years old the other day and who can still do some little dance steps. I hope he has been spared all the news of this horrible murder.

[Jarqui]

19. Had a thought about this that provided some consolation ...

Like so many, I appreciated "All in the Family"
Although they stopped broadcasting new episodes, it occurred that it never completely ended for me.
In a way, Rob Reiner never stopped being Michael Stivic. He grew.
He went from a role being a conscience and compassionate voice of reason on a popular TV show to a role of being a conscience and compassionate voice of reason for the country he loved and the planet.
After fifty plus years of that, there is a part of Rob thriving in many of us.

His father had a very successful career in the entertainment business.
So did Rob. But the neat thing about Rob is he was his own man.
He did what he wanted to do - didn't try to mimic his father who he idolized.

Often great directors seem to have a pattern for their films.
John Ford was renown for westerns. Hitchcock for suspense thrillers.
Or we got a series of films like Stars Wars, the Matrix, James Bond, Batman, Godfather, Die Hard, Fast & Furious, etc.
Reiner's films were all over the map - each one an artistic effort to create a unique good film.
Reiner created a lot of good/great and very different films.

I admired him and will miss him.

[erronis]

32. Thank you - beautiful post.

[bluboid]

20. My friends & I were 60's protesters...

& my father, a wounded WW2 vet, & his brave co-workers, joined the marches in downtown Seattle. That was the legacy of our generation. 😲

[TommieMommy]

23. I'm so sad over the murders and heartbroken over Romy who will live forever with the vision of her dead parents.

So many people need help with drug and alcohol addiction. Plus mental health problems, anger and violence issues Etc. we should be better than this. Both Rob and Michele tried very hard to help their son. They were fantastic people. 🙏

[dlk]

26. Having a child who is dangerous is devastating

For parents who have kind and generous hearts, It is difficult to break through the wall of denial that somehow, there is something that can be done for their child. As a parent you love them and want to save them. They are a part of you.

And as we’ve seen, the outcomes are utterly heartbreaking.

[Niagara]

28. Dearest Lucky

Of course the news and revealing articles of both Rob and Michele Reiner's untimely deaths are hitting you hard.


They were good people and not to mention their unselfish charities and activism.


The way they died was horrific. This weighs heavily in our minds and hearts.


I'm sending hugs your way. Take all the time you need to grieve.

[LuckyCharms]

29. .

[wendyb-NC]

30. It was so shocking

Last weekend was full of awful events, the horrific shootings at a beachside Hanukkah Celebration, then the shootings at Brown University, then the Reiners, tragic deaths. What a loss. It's heartbreaking.

Every day is some saga coming out of the dysfunct administration to add the horror of so many shocking senseless deaths is wrenching.

[erronis]

33. A lovely tribute to Rob and to Michael (Meathead). Thank you.

It's amazing how memories of those shows still feel fresh in my old brain.