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H2O Man

(78,063 posts)
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 01:28 PM Thursday

Re: James Comey

“All who believe in this country's values must vote for Democrats this fall. Policy differences don't matter right now. History has its eyes on us .” – James Comey, 2018


There are a few OP/threads about James Comey today. Some of my friends in this community express a strong dislike him, because they are convinced he influenced the outcome of the 2016 presidential election. Since there is no question he played a role in the outcome, it would be as foolish to say he didn't, as to ask, “Oh, hate the Irish now, do you?” This, despite the fact that one of our friends who posted that Comey's current legal case is “karma” self-identifies as an Irish Democrat.

I do not like or dislike Comey, regardless of his family's coming from the same section of the Old Sod as my own. This allows me to be objective about his role in 2016, rather than being rendered subjective due to emotions. I think that there are a number of individuals – and groups – who actually played a much more significant role than Comey in the election's outcome that my anti-Comey friends overlook or totally ignore.

Let's take a close look at three thing from the 2016 election that many people think Comey did wrong. The first, of course, would be his July 5, 2016 fifteen minute press conference. While he said that the DOJ would not file charges against Hillary Clinton regarding the e-mail controversy. As far as I am aware, this marked the first time the FBI ever announced its recommendation to the DOJ. While he said that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case,” he said that Secretary Clinton and her top aides had been “extremely careless.” He also noted that Clinton might not have been “technically sophisticated,” and unaware of the problems associated with her e-mails.

What influenced Comey to decide to talk to the media? In March of 2016, the FBI got an admittedly questionable e-mail, by way of Dutch intelligence, that indicated that Russian intelligence, from Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Shultz to Leonard Bernado. It claimed to be concerning Wasserman-Shultz saying that A.G. Lynch had told Amanda Renteria that she “would keep the Clinton investigation from going too far.” While Comey did not think this was accurate, he was concerned it could get traction if released to the public. And by mid-June, both DCLeaks and Guccifer 2.0 were releasing hacked e-mails.

On June 26, Lynch and former president Bill Clinton met privately on her DOJ jet at a Phoenix airport. The story broke in the media two days later. Lynch told the press that they did not discuss the e-mail investigation. However, because of the timing of the meeting – their first ever – either Clinton did something remarkably unwise, or he was intending to communicate something without saying the words. On July 1, Lynch told reporters that she knew how this meeting was raising “questions and concerns,” and that she “certainly wouldn't do it again.”

Earlier, Lynch had instructed Comey to not refer to the case as an “investigation,” but instead call it a “matter” in a private conversation. The combination of these factors resulted in Comey's decision to hold the press conference to protect the reputation of the FBI. At that point, I could appreciate that many people were convinced that Comey was wrong in that. What is worth noting that this included proto-cult maga members, not just members of the Democratic Party.

Comey said that the investigation was closed, but that if it re-opened, he would contact Congress. It would have been better if it stayed closed, of course. It appeared tot least until Rudy Giuliani appeared on Fox on October 25. There, he said, “We've got a couple of surprises left. I call them surprises in the way that we’re going to campaign to get our message out there. Maybe in a little bit of a different way and you’ll see and I think it will be enormously effective. And I do think that all of these revelations about Hillary Clinton finally are beginning to have an impact."

The following day, Comey was informed that the NYC FBI had been investigating Anthony Weiner, the disgraced former Representative, for sending “illicit” texts to a 15-year old. While searching Weiner's laptop, they found e-mails sent to his wife. Huma Abedin from Clinton's private server. These had been found well before, and only brought forth close to the election.

On October 28, Comey sent his infamous letter to Congress, saying the investigation had been re-opened. Of course, it was immediately leaked to the media. Many people, including more than Democrats, were upset that this was made public so close to the election. That is a sincere, valid concern. There is no question about that. But had he not notified Congress as he had said he would, there is no doubt that the nest of retired FBI, retired high-ranking NYC police, and Rudy were fully prepared to leak to the media. They also planned an attack on the internet.

In her 2021 memoir, Huma Abedin wrote that she told Weiner that if Clinton were to lose the election, “it will because of you and me.” The investigation was again closed, but extraordinarily close to Election Day. Did this influence the outcome of the election? Of course it did. And if Comey hadn't notified Congress, and Rudy & Fiends leaked it to the media, that would also have influenced it in a similar way.

A lot of good people still blame Comey, alone, for the loss. At worst, I think he is one of many that played significant roles. Wasserman Schultz holds no blame for the fake e-mail created by Russian intelligence. However, she had to resign as head of the DNC on July 28, as a result of e-mails revealed on WikiLeaks. She had been in discussions with other DNC members on how to weaken the Sanders' campaign, and discredit his supporters in the primaries. Leaks about behavior like that hurt.
I do not think AG Lynch deserves blame. From everything that I've heard, she did not anticipate Clinton's visit. But I do think Bill Clinton should have known better. The timing was terrible. It led to Comey's first press conference. I do not think that alone would have cost Clinton the election.

The re-opening of the case definitely hurt. Yet James Comey did not plant those e-mails on Anthony Weiner's computer. The fact these were on Weiner's computer suggests Comey was correct in saying Hillary and Huma were careless. Once found, the FBI had to investigate. Perhaps the most interesting thing, in my opinion, was the time between when they were found by the NYC FBI, and the time that the warrant to open them was gotten.

Again, there was a nest of former FBI and Fiends in NYC that was aware that they existed, and that Comey was informed. They despised Hillary Clinton, and the e-mails on Weiner's computer were the October surprise that Rudy spoke of. People might disagree with Comey's informing Congress, but the information was coming out either way.

Now for the third factor. Some people still insist that Comey should have announced that the FBI was investigating the felon on the Russian scandal. In fact, the FBI only began to investigate the felon six months after the election, starting the day after he fired Comey.

I do not care if anyone dislikes Comey. I'm fine with people disagreeing with the decisions he made. But as a party we need to be mature enough to admit that lots of other people played roles. And that included making mistakes that resulted in Comey's actions.


24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Re: James Comey (Original Post) H2O Man Thursday OP
I too am equivocal about Comey. But, I am convinced if ANYONE CAN defend against & expose Trump's vendetta-only hlthe2b Thursday #1
Thank you! H2O Man Thursday #5
Agree 100% malaise Thursday #6
Agreed. Right now he is on Team Rule of Law. yellow dahlia Thursday #11
The Republican Party always has an October surprise. PurgedVoter Thursday #2
I agree. H2O Man Thursday #7
Thanks for that. yellow dahlia Thursday #15
Thank you thank you thank you Nictuku Thursday #3
Right. H2O Man Thursday #8
It is very similar with those against Garland, minds are made up regardless of facts. Bev54 Thursday #12
Absolutely! H2O Man Thursday #20
I still think... Chemical Bill Thursday #4
Exactly! H2O Man Thursday #9
Thanks for the well thought out analysis. yellow dahlia Thursday #10
Thank you. H2O Man Thursday #17
Early in 2017 canetoad Thursday #13
I found this. yellow dahlia Thursday #16
Not the same article canetoad Thursday #23
Ah. Thanks. yellow dahlia Thursday #24
Yes, I remember. H2O Man Thursday #19
Correction: Comey OVERRULED the black woman that was his superior. W_HAMILTON Thursday #14
Wrong. H2O Man Thursday #18
NOT wrong -- and I have the receipts. W_HAMILTON Thursday #21
Because I like and respect you, H2O Man Thursday #22

hlthe2b

(111,659 posts)
1. I too am equivocal about Comey. But, I am convinced if ANYONE CAN defend against & expose Trump's vendetta-only
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 01:47 PM
Thursday

-justified indictments and charges, Comey can and ought to be the one to do it. Not only is he prepared and financially capable of doing so, but the fact that he has established relationships with Patrick Fitzgerald- eager to defend him, and many of the remaining non-corrupted agents within the FBI, means that he CAN fight back and do some immense good on that score. And yes, what he is doing is RIGHT. These charges ARE an assault on justice for us all.

That said, I'm not forgetting what happened with and to HRC at his hands. I never will, but I agree that the issues surpass that.

H2O Man

(78,063 posts)
5. Thank you!
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 02:10 PM
Thursday

My brother just sent me the following, from The Atlantic:

"Retribution Is Here" There are two fundamental paths human beings take when confronted with excellence or virtue in others. The first path is the way of growth: Those genuinely seeking self-improvement look to people of accomplishment, strong character, and sound judgment as models. They study these individuals, learn from their example, and strive to elevate themselves to that higher standard. This is the path of aspiration, it requires humility, effort, and the courage to acknowledge that others possess qualities worth emulating. The second path is the way of destruction: Those who lack character, integrity, or the discipline for genuine self-improvement choose instead to tear down anyone who stands above them. Rather than ascending to meet excellence, they attempt to drag excellence down to their level. It's easier to destroy than to build, simpler to attack than to achieve. What we're witnessing now is retribution born not of justice, but of resentment, the bitter fruit of small people confronting their own inadequacy by attempting to demolish those who remind them of it. This is an ancient pattern: mediocrity has always feared and attacked excellence because excellence exposes mediocrity for what it is. The lazy despise the diligent. The corrupt resent the principled. The petty cannot abide the noble. True strength builds. True character uplifts. What masquerades as strength through retribution is merely weakness lashing out, revealing itself with every vindictive act.


Note: Though he hasn't mentioned it to me, my sister-in-law told me that my brother has been attending lots of rallies in OR.

PurgedVoter

(2,615 posts)
2. The Republican Party always has an October surprise.
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 01:48 PM
Thursday

In general it is based enough on the truth to require a complex answer. Then the right wing media repeats the narrowly edited version.

I don't think Comey helped us, but if Krasnov is that concerned with going after Comey, he can't be all bad. The highest honor currently available in the USA is Krasnov pointing a person out and aiming his goons.

H2O Man

(78,063 posts)
7. I agree.
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 02:32 PM
Thursday

Mr. Comey absolutely did not help us in the 2016 election. Two of his actions were part of a larger series of errors that resulted in damage to Clinton's campaign. My point is that those who blame him, alone, for the loss are incorrect. As Democrats, we need to recognize and learn from the past errors that our party has made, or we will risk repeating them, losing elections, and looking for someone to blame.

Many here may be unaware of some of Comey's history. As Deputy AG, he appointed Patrick Fitzgerald to lead the grand jury investigation of the Plame Scandal. With Robert Mueller, Jack Goldsmith, and Patrick Philbin, he visited AG John Ashcroft in his hospital room, preventing the signing off on unconstitutional powers for the War on Terror. People on this forum respected him back then.

Comey has taken strong stands on important issues. He advocated for public schools to teach about the Shoah, or Holocaust, something that Americans need to fully understand today in America. More, he addressed the violence on the part of white police in black neighborhoods, another issue that I suspect is playing out among non-white communities.

yellow dahlia

(3,467 posts)
15. Thanks for that.
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 04:28 PM
Thursday

We can't define people by one, or a few, of their actions.

Comey is flawed, but not the enemy.

Nictuku

(4,392 posts)
3. Thank you thank you thank you
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 01:50 PM
Thursday

I doubt that folks who blame Comey directly will agree, but I appreciate all the facts that you have laid out. In fact, this will be my first Bookmark so I can refer to it again if needed.

H2O Man

(78,063 posts)
8. Right.
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 02:49 PM
Thursday

Those who blame Comey alone are not going to change their minds. They will continue identify him as personifying the reason Clinton lost. This is based upon an emotional pathway in their brains since 2016, rather than an accurate, rational understanding of the synergy of events from that time. This is frequently illustrated in some of them demanding that Comey should have evened things out by saying the FBI was investigating the felon -- though they were not, until Comey was fired six months after the election.

I'm not opposed to emotions. I suspect that I once experienced one, until life beat it out of me as a child. (grin) I do recognize that this is a stressful period, and that emotionally-driven Democrats will cast their votes for our candidates as a result. However, our party needs non-emotional people to be the rational foundation for campaigns, identifying past errors to be sure we do not repeat them. After all, it was none other than Ben Franklin who said, "When passions drive, let reason hold the reins." I doubt that even old Ben could change people's minds on Comey.

Bev54

(12,951 posts)
12. It is very similar with those against Garland, minds are made up regardless of facts.
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 04:13 PM
Thursday

Chemical Bill

(2,953 posts)
4. I still think...
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 01:59 PM
Thursday

the fact that Republicans fought tooth and nail to stop recounts in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania says more about how Trump won than anything else. However, there were many factors, not just one, that brought the election close.

H2O Man

(78,063 posts)
9. Exactly!
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 03:15 PM
Thursday

It is a fact that republicans will cheat to win. I remember my aunt saying that the PA vote margin was less than 1%, the smallest it had ever been, and that a re-count needed to be done. Her and my uncle -- who President Carter awarded as "Teacher of the Year" -- were active Democrats. I remember visiting them as a kid, and their being neighbors with Governor Casey. (I will say that his son, the future Senator, was not good at kickball.) And I remember the 2008 season, when republicans broke into a campaign HQ one night, and stole their computers' hard drives.

Now, when I boxed, I never intentionally broke a rule. But if my opponent was purposely fouling me, and the referee failed to address it, I had mastered the art of responding in kind. I didn't then, and don't now, consider that cheating. I was leveling the playing field (or ring apron). I think that same mindset can be properly applied to the sport of politics.

yellow dahlia

(3,467 posts)
10. Thanks for the well thought out analysis.
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 03:17 PM
Thursday

I agree with you - there were a lot of variables at play in 2016. I posit that Comey may have been manipulated by some of those variables.

Does Comey have different biases than me? Perhaps. Do I find some of his personality traits annoying? Perhaps. But that does not mean I should paint him as an evil bad guy and blame him for what happened in 2016? I don't think so. He is human, like all of us.

I have opinions about the behavior of Wasserman-Schulz and the DNC, as well.

I applaud your research. Here is more about the forces at work behind the scenes in the 2016 election. Charles McGonigle, at the FBI New York field office, may have played a very significant role in helping to sway the election. He was working with Rudy Giuliani, He had connections to the Russians in the background. It is likely that Comey spoke up at one point because he knew a leak from the NY field office was forthcoming. It is possible McConigle was behind the leak to NY Times, which led to an erroneous front page spread on Oct. 31, citing unnamed “intelligence sources,” the Times reported, “Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia.”

In October of 2023, the Philadelphia Inquirer published an article, written by Will Bunch, entitled: "The NYT should tell readers whether it helped crooked FBI agents get Trump elected in 2016". The subtitle of the article was "[T]he arrest of a high-level FBI agent on Russia-tied corruption charges raises stunning new questions about how Trump really won in 2016".

The first paragraph reads: "It was arguably the most consequential “October Surprise” in the history of American presidential elections. In the waning days of the 2016 race, with polls showing Hillary Clinton clinging to a lead over Donald Trump, two last-minute stories broke that rekindled on-the-fence voters’ ethical doubts about Democrat Clinton and quashed a budding scandal around her GOP rival." Here is an archived link to the full article. https://archive.ph/uTMbc

There were a lot of forces at play in the 2016 election.

H2O Man

(78,063 posts)
17. Thank you.
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 05:00 PM
Thursday

I appreciate the information on McGonigle information. I can say for certain that Comey was aware of the NYC nest, and knew they would leak the information if he failed to inform Congress that the case had been -- however briefly -- to review what was found on Weiner's laptop.

My father was a "first generation" Americans, his father having immigrated in 1879, and one of 14 siblings. Thus, I had relatives in the State Police, BCI Senior Investigators, FBI, and military intelligence. I got along fine with them as an adult, though as a teen they seemed to know all the nonsense I engaged in. Ha! From their experiences, I learned that there were individuals who were as corrupt as McGonigle, that bureaucracy often protected -- be it intentional of not. Systems are complicated.

I'm not suggesting that everyone should like Comey. But I do think that everyone should be aware that those forces at play in the 2016 election placed him in uncomfortable situations, where twice he had to pick what he sincerely thought he was taking the less bad choice when there were only two bad options. The comments that the current legal case against him is "karma" strike me as being as shallow as it was when the felon claimed he fired Comey due to his first press conference when he said no charges would be filed against Clinton ...... actually, more shallow, since it is likely the felon had desired such charges being filed.

canetoad

(19,630 posts)
13. Early in 2017
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 04:16 PM
Thursday

Seth Abramson wrote a piece for Huffpo (I think) describing much of what you said above. He pointed the finger at Erik Prince, brother of Betsy DeVos and blamed a cell of 'rogue' New York FBI agents.

I kept this article bookmarked for years but ended up deleting it. Do you remember this?

canetoad

(19,630 posts)
23. Not the same article
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 07:01 PM
Thursday

But thank you for the link - very interesting.

Back from the dog walk, I did a proper search and found it.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-domestic-conspiracy-that-gave-trump-the-election_b_587ed24fe4b0b110fe11dbf9

The Domestic Conspiracy That Gave Trump The Election Is In Plain Sight

PS I remember now how the BS that Huffpo puts you through to view anything and why I've avoided it for years.

H2O Man

(78,063 posts)
19. Yes, I remember.
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 05:04 PM
Thursday

Prince played a role. He continues to inject toxins into our social-political system.

I was aware of the nest of FBI agents, etc, in NYC since Bill Clinton was president. They have taken an active dislike of Bill and Hillary since 1992.

W_HAMILTON

(9,639 posts)
14. Correction: Comey OVERRULED the black woman that was his superior.
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 04:20 PM
Thursday

Yet, right before the election -- AGAIN breaking DOJ/FBI policy and precedent -- he cowered to his subordinates who threatened to leak to the press news that would hurt Hillary politically but not do one damn thing to change the outcome of their investigation.

Let's not whitewash what Comey did. Without Comey's unprecedented actions, there would be no Trump.

W_HAMILTON

(9,639 posts)
21. NOT wrong -- and I have the receipts.
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 05:12 PM
Thursday
The Justice Department’s internal watchdog found that former FBI Director James Comey’s actions in the Hillary Clinton email investigation were “extraordinary and insubordinate” and flouted the department’s norms...

The inspector general released a sweeping report Thursday detailing a series of failures by the top federal officials in charge of the investigation ahead of the election, concluding that the FBI’s actions ultimately “cast a cloud” over the bureau and senior leaders did lasting damage to the FBI’s reputation.


Taken from: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/ig-report-clinton-email-investigation

FBI Director James Comey was driven in part by a fear of leaks from within his agency when he decided to tell Congress the FBI was investigating newly discovered emails related to Hillary Clinton, law enforcement sources said on Thursday.


Taken from: https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us-politics/fbi-fear-of-leaks-drove-decision-on-emails-linked-to-clinton-sources-idUSKBN12Y2QB/

H2O Man

(78,063 posts)
22. Because I like and respect you,
Thu Oct 9, 2025, 06:02 PM
Thursday

I did not respond to anything beyond your title. In my OP, I had attempted humor with the bit about hatred of the Irish. It was my hope that readers would not post nonsense that only attempted, in the cheapest ways possible, to post such things. It is sad that you believed it was essential to identify the AG as a black woman, as if that was a factor in Comey's decision making after she recused herself for the inappropriate meeting with Bill Clinton. I could point out that the single largest Democratic Party group that under-voted in 2016 was black women. But like your "black woman" comment, it would simply be an attempt to distract from a meaningful discussions.

It is true that Comey went against a norm by holding the press conference. A norm, of course, is distinct from a "policy" (your word) although one could say it was an unwritten policy. Yet, context is everything. There have only been two previous elections in recent history where a candidate for president was understood to have engaged in illegal conduct. The first was with Richard Nixon in 1968, which I assume everyone is familiar with. LBJ nixed going after him for undetermined reasons, yet every informed citizen knew what was up. The second was when our candidate George McGovern attempted in 1972 to get the media to report on the crimes of Watergate, which he knew could be traced to the Oval Office. But reporting really only took root a year later.

Next, the retired FBI agents in the nest in NYC were not, by definition, Comey's insubordinates. Odd you would say such a thing. However, he was aware that some active members had informed the nest, who were -- exactly as I noted with unerring accuracy in the OP posed to leak. Indeed, their mouthpiece would have been Rudy, who also was not, by definition, Comey's insubordinate. Plus Russian intelligence was prepared to flood the internet.

So context, as always, is important. Comey was faced with issues that had never been faced in an American presidential election. He had two choices, and he made one that you still have strong negative emotiions on. Strong enough that you are able to ignore all of the others involved ..... in fact, so strong that you are incapable of doing so. And thus, you illustrate the risks of avoiding a rational discussion, and make a leap of faith that Clinton would have won but for Comey. That is, at very best, mere speculation that is entirely lacking in foundation.

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