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PCIntern

(27,691 posts)
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 06:26 AM Tuesday

A medical story for the forum:

I’m not so much of a narcissist that I feel compelled to post my medical issues online because they are uninteresting for the most part, but I have an experience I wish to share because it may help others in several ways.

To make a very long history short, I have been on blood pressure and cholesterol meds for 30+ years and am extremely well-controlled. I never miss a dose and routinely see my primary doc who is a cardiologist whom I’ve attended for 40+ years. For a senior citizen I’m pretty spry and have no serious complaints worth mentioning and am happy about that.

So at my last visit, the doc suggests that I wear a heart monitor for a week and I reluctantly agreed even though I knew I’d find it annoying. So I did it and mailed it back.

I get a call a few days later from the doc and he tells me that everything looked well as expected BUT there were four missed heartbeats with a three second interval until the next beat. He thought I should see an MD electrophysiologist to evaluate this and perhaps I might need a pacemaker. I instantly reacted and mentioned to him that in my 47 clinical years, I did not know a single individual who was asymptomatic who needed a pacemaker. He told me to just call this guy who is his secondary referral because his main guy just received a hip replacement and was way backed up. So I did as I was told.

A week later I arrived at the doctor’s office and was placed in an exam room. The doc came in, barely shook hands and proceeded to tell me, without any preamble, that I absolutely required a pacemaker and it absolutely had to be placed within a month or I could have a fatal catastrophe. So of course, I asked what type of catastrophe was I facing. His reply was that I could be driving a car, pass out, and kill myself or others I then told him that in my lifetime I have never once been light-headed or fainted and I don’t even get seasick on the roughest ocean.

He dismissed that statement out of hand and reiterated some research which I interpreted as gabble degook false statistics. Again to make a long story short, whatever I said was deemed unimportant including risks of complications . He told me his office would “reach out” to me to schedule the operation.

I left very angry, no, outraged. I called my doc and told him what happened and how this guy had decided a priori that I was getting this and he was doing it. My doc told me that I should not return to this specialist because I was angry with him and told me that he would call his primary guy and get me in. Which he did.

So I go to this fellow who takes a history, we have a ten minute discussion and he then says to me that I absolutely do not need a pacemaker, that the wave forms including that which is controlled by my vagus nerve are fine and at least one of the four beats at issue is almost certainly an artifact involving the leads of the monitor and otherwise there is essentially no cause for concern. I won’t bore you with the other details but you get the picture.

The moral of the story is this: I have never refused medical intervention in my lifetime because everything up until this point made perfect sense, but when something didn’t seem right, I followed my instincts. I had no symptoms and a serious intervention was carelessly prescribed because the first doc either didn’t care, needed to make his hospital numbers look better, or profit.

The punch line is that 3 1/2 weeks following the visit with the initial doc his office called to set up the surgery. I said, “ Great…doc told me that it positively had to be done within a month so there are only three days left. Does he have an opening?” The receptionist, after a long pause replied that he did not. I then told her that I was calling the funeral home to make arrangements. When she didn’t reply I told her that that was a joke, as was her boss, and that I was seeking other opinions” and hung up.

To sum up: I feel great and my job is to outlive all my enemies. If something doesn’t make sense to you, don’t assume that the subject material is beyond your scope of understanding. Follow your gut until you’re satisfied. Thanks for reading and stay well everyone!!

65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A medical story for the forum: (Original Post) PCIntern Tuesday OP
I applaud your resolve and common sense. no_hypocrisy Tuesday #1
a good lesson Skittles Tuesday #2
excellent advice.... markie Tuesday #3
I had something similar LittleGirl Tuesday #55
good luck with your surgery markie Tuesday #56
One surgeon said I need a new shoulder LittleGirl Tuesday #60
Good for you! mgardener Tuesday #4
Underscores the value of a second opinion (and where possible, a close friend, colleague or hlthe2b Tuesday #5
You know, it's funny... PCIntern Tuesday #8
And a lot of times just being able to ask questions. I've found a bit of research ahead of time helps. erronis Tuesday #20
Sure. As long as it is clear you aren't using "untrained so-called medical influencers" or "Dr. Google's worst sources" hlthe2b Tuesday #22
So, you didn't have to call your local funeral home...... Butterflylady Tuesday #6
Very good story. Thanks for sharing. Easterncedar Tuesday #7
The importance of THREE MissKat Tuesday #9
Terrific advice. PCIntern Tuesday #10
Glad your intuition was on target! Fla Dem Tuesday #11
Reading your experience with the electrophysiologist makes me thank my lucky stars TexLaProgressive Tuesday #12
I agree totally. OldBaldy1701E Tuesday #13
Interesting. I have been pushed to see an electrophysiologist - much more frequently recently. erronis Tuesday #14
Have you been on anticoagulants all this time? PCIntern Tuesday #15
Yup - first coumadin and now eliquis. You mention the Watchman - erronis Tuesday #21
I just BeerBarrelPolka Tuesday #46
Good for you! And I really hope it solves those issues. erronis Tuesday #49
Thank you BeerBarrelPolka Tuesday #52
erron popsdenver Tuesday #35
Your points are well understood. As almost anything in this society, money/profit will rot it out. erronis Tuesday #50
Thank you so much for telling us your story, Ilsa Tuesday #16
They all own stock in the company that makes the pacemaker. milestogo Tuesday #17
It sounds like my TIA story nuxvomica Tuesday #18
Have you considered otchmoson Tuesday #19
Can't get involved with that stuff, PCIntern Tuesday #30
I understand otchmoson Tuesday #36
My brother had a health scare and was stunned watching the vultures gather malaise Tuesday #23
Surgeons want to cut. Cardiologists who specialize in pacemakers MineralMan Tuesday #24
As the saying goes, NewLarry Tuesday #47
The first specialist sounds like the guy who told me I had to get both my knees replaced immediately,. That was 5 sinkingfeeling Tuesday #25
Thanks. An experience worth sharing and applying to similar situations. joanbarnes Tuesday #26
MD and AMA poozwah Tuesday #27
You really have to be your own doctor these days. I'm still pissed off about my experience a week ago Vinca Tuesday #28
Question everything. It's what I do too as a family advocate. live love laugh Tuesday #29
"You betcha" PCIntern Tuesday #31
What do you think of the Korean cholesterol study? womanofthehills Tuesday #33
I haven't read that study - Ms. Toad Tuesday #41
The Magnesium Miracle supports the findings that cholesterol isn't "bad" live love laugh Wednesday #64
They pulled this same shit with my Dad gay texan Tuesday #32
Similar story here, for goodnes sakes... Dancingdem Tuesday #34
My belief now is that most doctors are mediocre at best. LuckyLib Tuesday #37
I didn't save my source for this, and it's been a long time soldierant Wednesday #65
My biggest regret in life is the one time I didn't stand up to a doctor. pnwmom Tuesday #38
Oohh my gosh Chicagogrl1 Tuesday #39
I was 31 when I first refused medical intervention. Ms. Toad Tuesday #40
I've refused medical intervention. hunter Tuesday #44
So far - my refusals have always been for the better. Ms. Toad Tuesday #45
Just now, I declined the opportunity to wear a heart monitor. John1956PA Tuesday #42
I believe the hospital pressures these docs PCIntern Tuesday #51
I wore a heart monitor for a week and it was way more interesting than a few missed beats. hunter Tuesday #43
And "non-profit" hospitals are anything but. erronis Tuesday #54
They're drumming up business, minimizing liability, and pathologizing you. bucolic_frolic Tuesday #48
Always a good idea to be your own best advocate. hamsterjill Tuesday #53
Kickin' with enthusiasm Faux pas Tuesday #57
Thanks for sharing. yellow dahlia Tuesday #58
BIG kick and recommendation, might I add to get labs done on a regular basis and to 'watch the trend' ... cliffside Tuesday #59
Thanks for sharing, would you please link to this post in the health group? There is useful information in your post ... cliffside Tuesday #61
They are taking kickbacks from the medical device company iemanja Tuesday #62
You handled it expertly! pacalo Wednesday #63

no_hypocrisy

(53,372 posts)
1. I applaud your resolve and common sense.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 06:35 AM
Tuesday

I come from a medical family. My father was an internist-cardiologist. And though I lack a formal medical education and background, I often challenged his assessments when he tried to diagnose me at home. (Example: I self-diagnosed chicken pox at age 26 when he insisted it was impossible.)

When I consult any of my cadre of physicians, they understand this is a partnership and I will not follow out-of-hand protocol until I understand and agree with everything. Medications, procedures, etc.

I'm glad you're well in any case.

Skittles

(168,027 posts)
2. a good lesson
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 06:38 AM
Tuesday

if it doesn't feel right, get a second opinion

hey PCIntern, get one of those mobile Kardia things, they work good

markie

(23,678 posts)
3. excellent advice....
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 07:10 AM
Tuesday

goes the other way as well.... I went to docs for a number of years with arm pain and they pretty much wrote me off... fibromyalgia, PMR, uh, we don't know, etc... I have a high tolerance for pain, and they probably didn't take me seriously.... until I moved and found a doctor, MRI (massive damage to my shoulders) and he implied I was too old for surgery.... "just don't do the things that hurt"

.....finally, new doctor, new treatments and headed to reverse shoulder replacements later this month

LittleGirl

(8,841 posts)
55. I had something similar
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 08:00 PM
Tuesday

Middle age woman with shoulder pain, Hashimoto’s disease, menopause and tried to get me to raise my arm. I said I can’t. I couldn’t sleep either. The pain woke me up. Diagnosis: Frozen shoulder. They finally gave me a shot of cortisone as I tolerated that treatment before. That was in March. Pain returned 3 months later, only worse. Surgeon appt In November, I was finally told, oops, after your CT scan, I had a torn tendon! Surgery in January. Because of my intolerance to opioids, it took 2 years before I could function normally. It’s like 1/4 of my body was paralyzed.

markie

(23,678 posts)
56. good luck with your surgery
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 08:12 PM
Tuesday

I am more than middle aged but my doc assured me it will be ok

I can't follow all technical diagnosis, but this is some and it feels serious....

"Large complex glenohumeral joint effusion with synovitis communicating with the subdeltoid bursa due to rotator cuff tear.

Full-thickness complete tears of the supraspinatus and infraspinatus tendons. High-grade tears of the superior fibers of the subscapularis tendon. Teres minor appears intact.

Medial subluxation of the long head of the biceps tendon with severe tendinosis/thickening of the tendon proximally and
intra-articularly.

Moderate to severe acromioclavicular joint osteoarthritis with subchondral cysts/edema, small effusion, and capsular hypertrophy.

Diffuse diffuse cartilage thinning with signal heterogeneity and small focal full-thickness defects with subchondral cystic changes of the inferior glenoid. Circumferential degeneration and fraying of the labrum."

obviously, I have misused my shoulders my passion is working with wood and building, and it appears my lifestyle will be changing

LittleGirl

(8,841 posts)
60. One surgeon said I need a new shoulder
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:50 PM
Tuesday

Second surgeon said I could wait. Sigh.

I had the surgery in January 2023. It’s much better.

Good luck with yours. Hugs xx

hlthe2b

(111,664 posts)
5. Underscores the value of a second opinion (and where possible, a close friend, colleague or
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 07:42 AM
Tuesday

family member well-trained to read the medical literature to evaluate these adamant claims. )

Good heavens, not only can a disrupted lead cause such artifacts, but that cup of coffee you had, stress, alcohol, nicotine, and many medications. Not to mention hyperthyroidism and other primary rule-outs, where there is no history of heart disease or syncope. That second referral "expert" sounds exploitative at a minimum and corrupt at the worst...

Good on you.

PCIntern

(27,691 posts)
8. You know, it's funny...
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 08:02 AM
Tuesday

I’ve been on beta blockers for over 30 years, I drink a ton of coffee, I work a stressful job, and each time I mentioned this to the first asshole, he said none of those things will alter the results . And I thought to myself that is the second most ridiculous thing I’ve heard all day.

But what do I know? I just work here…

erronis

(21,572 posts)
20. And a lot of times just being able to ask questions. I've found a bit of research ahead of time helps.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:47 AM
Tuesday

Frequently a nurse (NP, PA, etc.) will talk to me in more depth than the doc. And I'll get recommendations from them about alternative doctors/opinions. Not that they would ever dispense medical advice before or against the attending doctor, but......

hlthe2b

(111,664 posts)
22. Sure. As long as it is clear you aren't using "untrained so-called medical influencers" or "Dr. Google's worst sources"
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:59 AM
Tuesday

I think most would be quite willing to debate the issues. Many physicians, too, except that there is such a limitation on their time for each patient, which becomes yet another (unfortunate) issue.

But well-informed patients (or a patient advocate) who are not argumentative, but merely seeking the best answer, are typically welcome. If not, (and I know it is easy to say but not necessarily easy to put into practice), I'd go elsewhere.

MissKat

(234 posts)
9. The importance of THREE
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 08:55 AM
Tuesday

When someone wants to cut into you ALWAYS GET A SECOND OPINION

and then a third.

I was told ten years ago that I needed pins and plates on my spine. No thanks. Back is achey, but ok.

I've been told I needed a hip replacement ASAP. No thanks. Hips are pretty good.

Just tell the suggesting surgeon-- I'm getting another opinion. If the specialist gets annoyed, they are a shit doctor and you should avoid them.

If all three docs agree, pick the person you feel the most comfortable with if you can.

If 2 of the 3 agree, get a 4th if you can.

I have learned to balk at taking prescriptions and accepting surgery suggestions until I can really evaluate.

I think it's why I'm still alive.

TexLaProgressive

(12,608 posts)
12. Reading your experience with the electrophysiologist makes me thank my lucky stars
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:18 AM
Tuesday

At 75 with Type 2 diabetes,, fair skin in sunny Texas, two time cancer surviver I have 6 doctors and 3 nurse practitioners. Not one of them have treated me the way this guy did you. On Match Day he was misplaced, should have been pathology.

OldBaldy1701E

(9,302 posts)
13. I agree totally.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:27 AM
Tuesday

Unfortunately, my life is not a good example of this, as I am a complete failure.

But, I agree with you.

erronis

(21,572 posts)
14. Interesting. I have been pushed to see an electrophysiologist - much more frequently recently.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:33 AM
Tuesday

I do have a-fib (atrial fibrillation). Have had it for 30+ years. Several seasoned cardiologists said that ablation (the technique the EP's use) is not usually successful after such a long period in a-fib. But new (younger) cardiologists - attached with a hospital chain - are promoting this. Wonder if there isn't some profit motive here?

PCIntern

(27,691 posts)
15. Have you been on anticoagulants all this time?
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:37 AM
Tuesday

It’s a tough situation…my friend was and had a brain bleed which could have been utterly catastrophic. Now they’re going to place a Watchman but he will still have to be on them for three months after the surgery.

erronis

(21,572 posts)
21. Yup - first coumadin and now eliquis. You mention the Watchman -
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:53 AM
Tuesday

I've taken two people to the hospital to have this device implanted. Another piece of Medical Equipment that seems to be much more frequently prescribed recently. And it is made by a single company - Boston Scientific.

BeerBarrelPolka

(1,858 posts)
46. I just
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 04:04 PM
Tuesday

I just had an ablation and Watchman done Friday. I have already suffered five strokes among other things, all caused by aFib. It's not something to play around with.

erronis

(21,572 posts)
49. Good for you! And I really hope it solves those issues.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 06:33 PM
Tuesday

I'm in my upper 70s and haven't had strokes or heart attacks yet - but they are very worrying.

BeerBarrelPolka

(1,858 posts)
52. Thank you
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 07:02 PM
Tuesday

Just monitor your heart rate and blood pressure. Mine runs on the low side nowadays. I'm 61.

popsdenver

(622 posts)
35. erron
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 12:59 PM
Tuesday

you have no idea how much the "medical field" has changed in the past 30 years here in the U.S.

In one sentence: Dr.'s are no longer practicing medicine, they are, for the most part, practicing "Corporate Policy"..............

Dr.'s, especially the young ones straddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical school debt, are all scrambling to get as much money as they can, as quickly as they can, in any way that they can.........

Just investigate all the major corporations that are buying up hospitals all across the nation, and setting the medical policies, along with all the Medical Insurance Corporations.........

You can talk to many of the "old" docs, (the ones that will be honest with you), and you will hear story after story about the state of what is going on with medicine practiced today here in America........

erronis

(21,572 posts)
50. Your points are well understood. As almost anything in this society, money/profit will rot it out.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 06:36 PM
Tuesday

I actually feel very sad for the new medical staff that are becoming part of the capialist/VC world. They are dispensable cogs in the huge machine.

Ilsa

(63,429 posts)
16. Thank you so much for telling us your story,
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:39 AM
Tuesday

especially so well, and giving us the summary, "...when something didn’t seem right, I followed my instincts..."
Golden.


nuxvomica

(13,686 posts)
18. It sounds like my TIA story
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:42 AM
Tuesday

I came in from work one day and noticed the lights dimming for a few seconds, which my coworkers didn't see. Went to my ophthalmologist who saw a little bulge in the vessel that feeds my right optic nerve, so he sent me to a retinal specialist. The specialist determined I had had a TIA and sent me straight to the ER, where they wanted to keep me overnight, which I refused because I felt fine. My PCP prescribed a blood thinner and ordered ultrasounds. While getting the ultrasound, I'm chatting with the tech about migraines, which I've had since childhood. The tech's sister was just starting to get migraines so I was filling her in on what I knew about them, specifically that for me they usually follow a period of stress that is suddenly relieved and the headaches are usually preceded by one of various prodromes like flashing lights or tunnel vision. She let on that my ultrasounds were clear after I told her how worried I was. Then I said I would probably get a migraine the next day because she relieved my worry. Sure enough I got a migraine the next day, preceded by the lights dimming for a few seconds. So it appeared I had a new migraine prodrome to add to my collection. Because of the test results and my story, my PCP said I could stop the blood thinner, for which I am thankful because I've suffered two concussions in the years since.

otchmoson

(249 posts)
19. Have you considered
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:43 AM
Tuesday

filing a complaint with the medical board. This appears to be malpractice FOR PROFIT. I think I might also look with a jaundiced eye at my primary care. He had to cause you some real stress as you pondered potential problems. I'm glad you're doing well . . . and may you outlive your enemies. Thank you for posting his . . . it's good to know that others share your experience and frustration (though perhaps in a different field of medicine). Sadly, it also points out that some people do not have the financial resources for that second or even third opinion, and perhaps not enough age or wisdom to trust your own gut.

otchmoson

(249 posts)
36. I understand
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 01:28 PM
Tuesday

whoever you file the complaint with has no obligation to tell you if or when the matter is "investigated." But I feel that it starts a paper trail of dissatisfaction that may serve some future victim. [I've done it once and had another experience that I didn't report but wish I had.]

malaise

(290,042 posts)
23. My brother had a health scare and was stunned watching the vultures gather
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 10:04 AM
Tuesday

to deliver completely unnecessary treatment.
Thankfully two of his childhood friends are experts in their field and laughed the grifters to scorn

MineralMan

(149,924 posts)
24. Surgeons want to cut. Cardiologists who specialize in pacemakers
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 10:21 AM
Tuesday

want to implant pacemakers. That's how it is. Finding good ones who will tell you that you don't necessarily need surgery or a pacemaker is very, very difficult. Specialists want to make money so they err on the side of doing what they do.

As you learned, a second and even a third opinion is a good idea.

sinkingfeeling

(56,530 posts)
25. The first specialist sounds like the guy who told me I had to get both my knees replaced immediately,. That was 5
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 10:35 AM
Tuesday

years ago and I'm still walking miles on my 'bad' knees.

Vinca

(52,828 posts)
28. You really have to be your own doctor these days. I'm still pissed off about my experience a week ago
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 11:09 AM
Tuesday

where the primary care couldn't see me for weeks (what the hell are they for then?), urgent care couldn't treat the problem and I spent the better part of a day waiting for treatment at the ER and feeling guilty for clogging it up. For something the primary care doctor could treat. Dr. Google and I will definitely be spending more time together.

live love laugh

(15,974 posts)
29. Question everything. It's what I do too as a family advocate.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 11:11 AM
Tuesday

Doctors seem to be more and more aggressive about prescribing additional drugs. I recently stopped them from adding drugs for my relative. She has a medical device that transmits readings of her condition daily. The medical team has a seemingly arbitrary goal that, when exceeded, they immediately want to up meds even though she is asymptomatic and most importantly she has not been hospitalized for the condition which she was l hospitalized for annually before intervention—even while even being nine points over goal. Instead of them resetting the goal based on actual performance, they keep trying to add drugs to get her to a false target. The drugs themselves have actually led to her hospitalization because they are extremely powerful.

womanofthehills

(10,473 posts)
33. What do you think of the Korean cholesterol study?
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 11:30 AM
Tuesday

It included the entire population of Korea. Basically says younger people need lower cholesterol but as we age older folks live longer with 210 to 249 cholesterol.

It’s published in Nature- one of top med magazines

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-38461-y

“Total cholesterol and all-cause mortality by sex and age: a prospective cohort study among 12.8 million adults”

In conclusion, U-curve relationships between TC and mortality were found, regardless of sex and age. TC ranges associated with the lowest mortality were 210–249 mg/dL in each sex-age subgroup, except for the youngest groups of men, aged 18–34 years (180–219 mg/dL), and women aged 18–34 years (160–199 mg/dL) and 35–44 years (180–219 mg/dL). “

Ms. Toad

(37,856 posts)
41. I haven't read that study -
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 02:44 PM
Tuesday

but my cholesterol is high and I'm diabetic. My diabetes is hereditary (every descendent of my maternal grandfather who is my age or older has diabetes). There is zero history of heart disease in any of the individuals with diabetes. In the previous generation - my mother is 93, my uncle just died of non-heart-related causes at 97-ish).

I am not willing to go on statins because they work by (1) blocking the production of cholesterol, forcing the body to pull the cholesterol it needs from the blood through the vein walls - which also blocks the production of other things the body needs (but can't pull from the blood - like CoQ10), and (2) hardening the arteries as a consequence of pulling the cholesterol through the veins and (3) I have 0% cardiac calcification.

We don't actually know if the correlation between high serum cholesterol and heart disease is one of causation, versus both being symptoms of an underlying cause/condition. My doctor is certainly reasonable in asking me to consider statins. On all evaluations which do not use diabetes as a overriding factor, the rest of my history (cholesterol numbers, age, gender, diabetes as a factor, family history) puts me in the discussion, not recommendation, category.

What is unreasonable is his refusal to consider diabetes as one factor - to be balanced against all others. I don't know if insurance is the reason for rote treatment (as opposed to customized), but he has told me more than once that he is getting dinged by insurers for not having all of his diabetic patients on statins.

live love laugh

(15,974 posts)
64. The Magnesium Miracle supports the findings that cholesterol isn't "bad"
Wed Oct 8, 2025, 02:02 AM
Wednesday

Author Carolyn Dean provides loads of research that counters artificial cholesterol-lowering drugs (statins) vs. essential minerals (Magnesium) that do a better job interacting with the body to achieve necessary cholesterol levels.

She identifies the origins of the myth that cholesterol is bad as emanating from two Russian researchers in 1913 who fed large amounts of oxidized (rancid) crystallized cholesterol to a group of hungry rabbits. When they saw yellow gunk clogging the arteries they leapt to the conclusion that cholesterol was responsible for coronary disease. Later researchers found that the type of cholesterol in the study is not something the body even uses and that dietary cholesterol is harmful only if it is stale or rancid.

The book points towards the opinion that the cholesterol scare is just big business for doctors, labs and drug companies and a powerful marketing gimmick for vegetable oil and margarine manufacturers.

More importantly the importance of cholesterol is discussed in detail. Without it:
* We wouldn't be able to have sex or procreate and would become extinct because sex hormones and stress hormones are made from it
* It's necessary to create cell membranes and coats nerves with protective fatty insulation that make up about 60 to 80% of our brain tissue
* It’s essential for proper food digestion and fat absorption
* Your bones would turn to mush because you couldn't make vitamin D from sunlight and wouldn't be able to absorb calcium.

Artificial drugs may excessively remove cholesterol causing more harm than good. I live by the advice in this book.

gay texan

(3,089 posts)
32. They pulled this same shit with my Dad
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 11:23 AM
Tuesday

Dying in the memory care center of agent orange, they found a spot on his lungs.

So they wanted to do a bunch of medical tests, biopsies. My Mom told them to fuck off and then they came clean saying it could have just been an error in the x-ray.

Dancingdem

(18 posts)
34. Similar story here, for goodnes sakes...
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 12:04 PM
Tuesday

I was hospitalized this past summer because I was excessively sweating and started having episodes of passing out after vigorous dance workouts. Then I began to have serious shortness of breath.

The hospital doctor scheduled me to have a pacemaker operation which I refused. Finally, a knowledgeable pulmonary heart doctor came into my room and said my electrolytes, especially potassium and magnesium were too low and recommended using electrolytes in powder form to add to my water everyday. Low potassium can disrupt the hearts electrical system performance.

He also noted my B12 was on the low side as well so I started supplementing with fast release B12 vitamins. I tend to follow a mostly vegan diet and low B12 can be a problem that we are not aware of. So if you are inexplicably exhausted much of the time, low B12 can be the cause of that.

Fast forward to today, I have returned to my dancing sports with energy and no shortness of breath at all. And my heart is in excellent shape with no need for a pacemaker.

It is good to trust your instincts and seek trustworthy medical advice. I fell like we must advocate for ourselves and families.

Thank you for sharing your story. So glad you are doing well

soldierant

(9,018 posts)
65. I didn't save my source for this, and it's been a long time
Wed Oct 8, 2025, 04:16 AM
Wednesday

since I came across it. But someone was doing studies on location-dependent learning to try to find out how much it happens. For instance, it's well known among choir directors that if they change the arrangement of the sections, the choir needs to re-learn music already learned. Anyway this group went to a medical school and set up a situation where a graduating class took their fial exam, in the lecture room the course had bee taught in, and in the same seating. The class average on this exam was over 90%. Then the same class moved to a different room, scrambled the seating, and took the same exam again. the same day. The class average fell to 60-something %. I certainly don't mean to imply that these phenomena are unique to musicians and physicians. I expect we all experience some of this.

pnwmom

(110,120 posts)
38. My biggest regret in life is the one time I didn't stand up to a doctor.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 01:56 PM
Tuesday

I had once left a doctor's office unsatisfied with his "just a virus" diagnosis, and driven my sick child to a hospital ER instead -- where it turned out he had bacterial meningitis. So I knew a doctor could be seriously wrong.

But this time I was with my husband, because he had been treated for the same thing for years, and I was afraid it was cancer. The doctor insisted once again that it was benign. So I asked about a procedure I knew could definitely rule that out, and he just mocked me, telling me I shouldn't consult "Dr. Google." And my husband wanted to believe he was fine, so that was that.

Six months later the doctor finally did that procedure, but it was too late. In the years of getting no treatment, the thing that "wasn't cancer" had already spread to my husband's spinal cord.

Chicagogrl1

(585 posts)
39. Oohh my gosh
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 02:17 PM
Tuesday

So sorry. We do the best we can. Some doctors like to belittle patients for asking questions. They do not see the relationship as a partnership. Big hugs.

Ms. Toad

(37,856 posts)
40. I was 31 when I first refused medical intervention.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 02:30 PM
Tuesday

It has not been the only time when I have either refused medical intervention - or demanded it.

I was hospitalized and on heparin (a blood thinner). The doctors were having trouble regulating it - and my PT/INR (a measure of how long it takes for blood to clot) was frequently in the range that posed a high risk for a spontaneous bleed. The doctors repeatedly shut off the IV heparin drip for the period of time they calculated would drop the levels into the therapeutic range. They repeatedly restarted the IV heparin drip without testing the PT/INR - then tested it after an hour. It was always in the range that posed a high risk for a spontaneous bleed, so they disconnected me again. After the second round, I suggested that it had never dropped into the therapeutic range, so by hooking the IV up without testing my PT/INR they were making the problem worse. They ridiculed my suggestion and refused to test. After the third round, I refused to allow them to restart the IV until they could prove it was safe. They reluctantly tested - and - of course - I was right. Punch line to that story is that my primary care doc (back in that era they actually made rounds) yelled at me the next day for being mean to the hospital docs.

Since then, I have fired at least two doctors and one entire team, refused care (repeatedly) from my primary care doc - again being proven confirmatory testing that his concerns were vastly exaggerated, refused care from specialists at least twice, and demanded treatment/tests (sometimes very specific) at least a half dozen times.

I am not an easy patient for any doctor who lacks confidence in themselves - or sees patients as incapable of medical reasoning.

I also have a number of really fantastic doctors whose care I trust implictly (four I can count without any thought). They welcome an involved patient.

But I never go into a non-emergent medical situation without doing my own literature review, so that I am prepared for whatever questions or comments the doctor might make, so that we can have a meaningful conversation on the spot without the need for me to research after the fact then wrestle with whether any concerns that research raises are serious enough to make another appointment. When a doctor occasionally comes up with something I don't expect - it is often a good sign that s/he is one of those really fantastic doctors I value so much - it is inevitably either newer research, or a nuance that was not apparent from publicly available literature.

That approach has saved my life and my daughter's life.

In contrast - the "doctor is god" mentality cost my father-in-law his life, and has almost certainly shortened my brother-in-law's. My father-in-law actually went to a doctor because of blood in his urine (uncommon in a family where males just tough it out). The doctor assured him it was nothing, so he trusted him and didn't return until a year or two later when his urine was always bright red blood. He was diagnosed with stage IV bladder cancer, and died a few months later. My brother-in-law has an aggressive rare type of melanoma. He was on Keytruda after a recurrence, and went to the ER for an unrelated matter. "They administered steroids - which interfered with the Keytruda, and the tumor did not shrink nearly as much as early indications had suggested it would. Even though he had been warned about taking steroids, he had not informed the ER team he was on Keytruda, because "they have all of my records, so they know," and he assumed (without asking) that they had evaluated the situation and determined the risk was warranted.

Be your own advocate. If you find a doctor you can trust implicitly - keep them at all costs. If your doctor treats your concerns as annoying (or threatening to their ego) - drop them as fast as you can.

Ms. Toad

(37,856 posts)
45. So far - my refusals have always been for the better.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 04:01 PM
Tuesday

The single medical regret I have (in 69 years of way too much interaction with the medical system) is when I didn't refuse medical intervention. So far - no harm, but any harm would be years in the making.

Normally I have time to fully evaluate and make my decision, and then move on without regret - even if my decision doesn't work out as I had hoped. One decision resulted in a second surgery, which mortified my doctor (his first ever failure). But that second surgery was still less risky than the approach recommended by the initial doctor (which carried with it a risk of permanent respiratory impairment).

But when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, it was at the worst time of year to allow time to make a decision (end of school year/start of bar study). In addition, that spring my brother was actively dying of colon cancer (in prison, in another state). He died the day after a pre-mastectomy biopsy of a spot missed by the first team on the MRI, so I wasn't even able to travel for a final visit with him. Which brings me to needing to fire the first medical team (both incompetence and arrogance) - so I had to start over with a new team. As a result, my window for making a decision about radiation ended up not being large enough for me to evaluate risks v. benefits.

So I agreed to radiation. In hindsight, I would have refused it. Radiation-induced angiosarcoma is an uncommon but very deadly long-term complication of radiation, and I collect uncommon and rare conditions. I am more confident in my ability detect a local recurrence of a very slow growing cancer than I am in my confidence to identify a new, aggressive, hard to detect, radiation-induced angiosarcoma.

John1956PA

(4,531 posts)
42. Just now, I declined the opportunity to wear a heart monitor.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 03:25 PM
Tuesday

The physician's assistant stated that she could write a prescription for a heart monitor (because of my age which is close to seventy) but there are no symptoms which suggest that it is imperative.

I am surprised your primary care physician suggested that you wear one.

hunter

(40,056 posts)
43. I wore a heart monitor for a week and it was way more interesting than a few missed beats.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 03:28 PM
Tuesday

The cardiologist was showing the results to his buddies and the resident physicians.

Then I took some more tests, treadmills, the works, maybe all my insurance would bear.

When it was all done they decided I probably wasn't going to die and my wife, who is herself a health care professional, agreed.

And that was that.

"For profit" healthcare causes some severe distortions in the system. There's no doubt about that.

erronis

(21,572 posts)
54. And "non-profit" hospitals are anything but.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 07:46 PM
Tuesday

When every hospital in my state (VT) is labeled Non-Profit, it doesn't mean that the CEOs and high-level administrative staff aren't getting paid in the 6 and 7 digit yearly incomes. There's money to be made in people's healthcare (and misery.)

bucolic_frolic

(52,751 posts)
48. They're drumming up business, minimizing liability, and pathologizing you.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 06:09 PM
Tuesday

There's a recent book, "Unshrunk" about how this is done in the psychology world, basically. Woman was 30 before she doubted the psychiatrists and clinics.

I trust a handful of YouTube doctors more than the local ones I'm supposed to see. I don't see any.

It's not just you and the doctor. It's you and the doctor and his lawyer and your insurer and his colleagues and the government in the exam room with you. No wonder you can barely get a word in edgewise.

Another trick is to ask the patient, 'do you mind if my partner takes a look, just take a second'. If you say yes the partner gets paid a consulting fee. Do you get the same level of treatment if you say no?

hamsterjill

(16,636 posts)
53. Always a good idea to be your own best advocate.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 07:40 PM
Tuesday

I've had several times when (thankfully) minor medical stuff was addressed as if it were major, and I had a gut feeling that I should check with another provider. Did check and it was a different approach. I don't want to appear like an arrogant idiot because I don't go to the doctor to tell THEM what to do. But I think most of us can sense when we were are simply being "oversold".

When I have felt that way, I feel like it's in my best interest to back off, find someone else to provide another opinion, and then decide. The point is to always follow through with someone else and not just ignore something because you have a sense about it. Always better safe than sorry.

yellow dahlia

(3,467 posts)
58. Thanks for sharing.
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:18 PM
Tuesday

I have learned to question the medical profession myself, at times.

On more than one occasion, I wish I had listened to my own instinct.

Glad to hear you are in good shape, overall.

cliffside

(1,392 posts)
59. BIG kick and recommendation, might I add to get labs done on a regular basis and to 'watch the trend' ...
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:48 PM
Tuesday

not just what is a 'normal number.' If you use Labcorp they now show a chart, think it is up to 10 years of numbers when available.

cliffside

(1,392 posts)
61. Thanks for sharing, would you please link to this post in the health group? There is useful information in your post ...
Tue Oct 7, 2025, 09:53 PM
Tuesday

and many replies as well.

Thanks again for posting!

Link to the DU Health group.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1142

pacalo

(24,821 posts)
63. You handled it expertly!
Wed Oct 8, 2025, 12:24 AM
Wednesday

I shudder to think of how many were duped by those con artists. So sad.

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