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kimbutgar
(26,230 posts)This one is even starker.
iemanja
(56,928 posts)I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t grieve for it. It’s the moral issue of our time.
Skittles
(168,024 posts)"The Holy Land" 
Bayard
(27,381 posts)Its pretty sad that only a few countries are now calling it out. Too little, too late.
homegirl
(1,876 posts)what was the population of GAZA before Hamas went to war,
what was the primary industry, revenue source, and what was the most common type of employment,
and what was the average income,
did women have the vote?
Was education opportunity limited by gender?
rubbersole
(10,701 posts)homegirl
(1,876 posts)must be rebuilt. How many housing units will be needed, public transportation and certainly building OR rebuilding the economy and public services must be addressed. Solving the genocide problem-that's been a problem for three thousand years! GOOD LUCK TO ALL INVOLVED!
rubbersole
(10,701 posts)...it should be rebuilt as "the Riviera of the Middle East". Then the Palestinians could return. As servants.
homegirl
(1,876 posts)he thinks, and I am super generous with "thinks".
What was the economy based on before this current war? Surely, not tourism, was it oil or welfare from other Muslim countries?
rubbersole
(10,701 posts)
AloeVera
(3,826 posts)I like your style...
iemanja
(56,928 posts)that I wish I'd said it myself. Yours is one of those. 
littlemissmartypants
(30,001 posts)If you want to.
iemanja
(56,928 posts)Women had the vote. The last election was 19 yrs ago. You’ll have to Google the rest.
homegirl
(1,876 posts)past tense, did they lose it? Last election soon two decades ago, so no one has voted for almost 20 years!!!
iemanja
(56,928 posts)In twenty years.
AloeVera
(3,826 posts)I suggest you start with the 17-year BLOCKADE of Gaza by Israel, and what that did to its emerging economy, self-sufficiency, industry, agriculture, fishing and poverty and unemployment rates. None of it is good.
Why would you think women don't have the right to vote?
Palestinians highly value education and have one of the best literacy and graduation rates. Women comprise at least 60% of students in higher education and at least a quarter of faculty.
Israel destroyed all 16 universities in Gaza. Most of them by controlled demolition. Now imagine all those university students whose work and hopes are now also destroyed. Very sad and infuriating, no?
Palestinian students' education throughout the OPT is often interrupted or destroyed through killings, injuries, arbitrary arrests and detentions as well as the innumerable checkpoints and curfews Israel imposes. Yet they persist.
iemanja
(56,928 posts)Thank you.
RainCaster
(13,174 posts)Why else would they publish such horrible images?
jg10003
(1,054 posts)AloeVera
(3,826 posts)Remorse, shock, horror? As in the rest of the world?
Response to iemanja (Original post)
jg10003 This message was self-deleted by its author.
jg10003
(1,054 posts)Governments make war and innocent people suffer.
Hamas is the government of Gaza.
Hamas attacked Israel.
Israel is trying to destroy Hamas.
Hamas could surrender and end the war, but it won't.
Innocent people are suffering, but it's not genocide.
600,000 German civilians and 1,000,000 Japanese were killed by allied bombing. Was that genocide?
If you want to know what genocide really is look to Sudan's ongoing civil war. Islamist extremist groups have killed 2,000,000 Christians in the Sudan in an attempt to kill all of the Christians in that country. That is what genocide is, trying to destroy an entire racial, ethnic, or religious group of people. Israel is not killing Palestinians in order to eliminate the entire group, they are trying to achieve a military victory over the government that declared war on them.
questionseverything
(11,315 posts)And of course imprisons the people of Gaza with the wall and demeaning check points
And they have bombed and murdered the Christian community that stayed to serve the poor of Gaza
They have become everything they hated
homegirl
(1,876 posts)and accurate post, thank you.
Jilly_in_VA
(13,258 posts)WE ARE DISCUSSING GAZA. If you want to talk about Sudan, start another thread. Got that?
jg10003
(1,054 posts)I use Sudan as an example of what genocide is:
The deliberate killing of a specific group of people with the intent to eradicate that group.
That is different than civilians being killed in war as a result of legitimate military actions.
We are talking about WHAT ISRAEL IS DOING IN GAZA. We are not talking about Sudan. If you can't see that maybe you need to take your logo and sit on it. It's blinding you.
Lonestarblue
(12,973 posts)They are murdering innocent people with deliberate attacks aimed at women and children. As soon as the IDF gained access to to Gaza early in the war, they started bulldozing mosques, graveyards, olive trees, orchards, and most crops. That is destroying a people’s culture, which is also a characteristic of genocide. Israel is also committing war crimes by bombing hospitals and refugee camps and starving people to death. The goal seems clear—force all Palestinians to leave Gaza by making it unlivable. When all the Palestinians there are either dead or forced out of Gaza, Israel will clean it up and create the new Riviera.
oasis
(53,020 posts)He co-signed for this with his pal Netanyahu.
Wounded Bear
(63,156 posts)Most of the preliminary demo is done.
Totally Tunsie
(11,334 posts)This destruction is beyond horrific.
Ping Tung
(3,848 posts)
malaise
(290,032 posts)Effin evil
underpants
(193,439 posts)
usonian
(21,339 posts)Fake Video tells the truth of the plan.
Jilly_in_VA
(13,258 posts)has turned into exactly what it was established because of! They fled Nazi persecution of Jews only to turn into a state that kills innocent Palestinian women, children, and elderly in their land grab. They aren't satisfied with the land they were given; they must have the West Bank and Gaza too, just because their "holy book" says so. And so they must raze everything and kill and starve everyone living there because they are all somehow "terrorists", but actually because they are all just inconveniently IN THE WAY.
Or, as my late ex succinctly put it 25 years or so ago, "Israel has lost its soul." Truth. And if you can't see that, you might have a problem.
gab13by13
(30,048 posts)Coming Soon - Trump Tower & Casino
IcyPeas
(24,392 posts)
maxsolomon
(37,528 posts)Sinwar wanted to provoke Israel into this reaction. He gave Israel a casus belli to do what their right wing had always wanted to do: destroy Gaza.
AloeVera
(3,826 posts)I sometimes see this argument about suicidiality and I have to wonder why is it made, surely the illogic is evident?
My theory is that it helps to avoid the painful questions pertaining to October 7th: How is it possible that it happened and why?
I think Israel intentionally provoked the Hamas attack. There is some evidence - not enough, in my view - for the theory that Israel even helped facilitate it through willful inaction, negligence and perhaps even premeditated weakening of the usual military defenses around the border. Israel had ample warning and evidence for an imminent attack and chose not to heed it. The location and lack of security for the music festival is an anomaly for Israeli intelligence, military and police. There are many other red flags...
But there is no doubt that Israel engaged in strategic provocation of Hamas, a practice that has been a consistent prelude to war, especially when a narrative is needed to justify violent and unpalatable intentions such as the long-standing desire to ethnically cleanse Gaza and annex the West Bank.
Look what Netanyahu said in June/July 2023: that Palestinian hopes of establishing a sovereign state must be eliminated. He presented to the UN just one month before October 7th a map of the "New Middle East" in which Israel swallows up all of the OPT. His demands for judicial reform were designed for allowing continuing occupation, annexation and ethnic cleansing.
Oh and how about this tweet he put out?
"The Jewish people have an exclusive and unquestionable right to all areas of the Land of Israel. .. The government will promote and develop settlements in all parts of the Land of Israel..."
How about Ben-Gvir's 3 visits to Al-Aqsa Mosque in 2023 or the numerous raids by Israeli police? How about the storming of Al-Aqsa by Jewish settlers just days before October 7th - with the support of police and military?
These are all impossible demands made of Palestinians, an integral part of strategic provocation.
And if you ask yourself which side had most to gain from the destruction of Gaza the answer is obvious. It sure wasn't "Sinwar".
maxsolomon
(37,528 posts)It was a suicidally bad idea to commit the 10/7 pogrom. There's no way Sinwar didn't expect a brutal retaliation and likely his own death.
AloeVera
(3,826 posts)You provoke your enemy and accept that its response will be harmful to you.
But I think both Israel and Hamas miscalculated.
Hamas was prepared for a limited excursion into Israel, around the border military posts where it had planned to take hostages. It expected a full-spectrum defense by the IDF and hard-to-penetrate border defenses so it was to be a quick in-and-out operation.
Instead, it was able to breach the border easily and inexplicably and the IDF and other security apparatus collapsed unexpectedly. It encountered no meaningful resistance until well into the afternoon, enabling its members as well as civilians to attack unplanned targets. It claims not to have even known about the festival.
Hamas got caught in something they had not planned for, including some of their own criminal civilians going on a rampage.
There is just too much here to ignore. Putting it down to Hamas being suicidal is burying your head in the sand. It's reasonable to question how this all came about. There should be a fully independent commission of enquiry, but Netanyahu has blocked that.