Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish? (Guardian)

[mdbl]

It’s not just you. The internet is getting worse, fast. The services we rely on, that we once loved? They’re all turning into piles of shit, all at once. Ask any Facebook user who has to scroll past 10 screens of engagement-bait, AI slop and surveillance ads just to get to one post by the people they are on the service to communicate with. This is infuriating. Frustrating. And, depending on how important those services are to you, terrifying.

In 2022, I coined a term to describe the sudden-onset platform collapse going on all around us: enshittification. To my bittersweet satisfaction, that word is doing big numbers. In fact, it has achieved escape velocity. It isn’t just a way to say something got worse. It’s an analysis that explains the way an online service gets worse, how that worsening unfolds, and the contagion that’s causing everything to get worse, all at once.

This moment we’re living through, this Great Enshittening, is a material phenomenon, much like a disease, with symptoms, a mechanism and an epidemiology. When doctors observe patients who are sick with a novel pathogen, their first order of business is creating a natural history of the disease. This natural history is an ordered catalogue of the disease’s progress: what symptoms do patients exhibit, and in which order?

Here’s the natural history of enshittification:
1 First, platforms are good to their users.
2 Then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers.
3 Next, they abuse those customers to claw back all the value for themselves – and become a giant pile of shit.

Read the rest at:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/oct/05/way-past-its-prime-how-did-amazon-get-so-rubbish

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My favorite quote from the article is about monopolies:

Once a company is too big to fail, it becomes too big to jail, and then too big to care.

[Walleye]

1. I think it was Joseph Conrad, who said this about capitalists

Something like they praise and love competition, but in their hearts, they cherish a monopoly

[eppur_se_muova]

5. Adam Smith had a few things to say about that ...

“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”
― Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations

“We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combinations of masters, though frequently of those of workmen. But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject.”
― Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations

("Combinations" was then used in the sense we use "monopolies" today.)

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/14424.Adam_Smith

[Srkdqltr]

2. Nice to trash it from on high but those of us in a real world appreciate not having to

Run from store to store to find stuff needed delivered in a timely manner.
Older folks who are not able and those of us just plain sick of having to go from store to store. Not everyone loves shopping.

[mdbl]

4. I agree.

I just like to remain informed about the evil that is the foundation of the benevolence.

[Srkdqltr]

6. Way back when amazon started i was suprised that Sears or Pennys didn't take over as

They had the stock at the time and you could buy from the catalog. But Sears and Penny's were to old and set in their ways so new fresh took over. When Amazon runs it's course something else will take over. Better or worse.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. A Pet Peeve

Sears had a gigantic customer base that had buying, sight unseen, for over 100 years. The catalogs came out in the 1880s.
Then, they had one of the early home networking sites with Prodigy.
Instead of exploring that, they focused on real estate and brick & mortar.
They should have been Amazon years before Bezos even started Amazon.
Then, they paid bonuses to the people who drove the company into the ditch.
What a waste.

[Srkdqltr]

16. Yes . They messed up a long term gain for quick money.

[ananda]

55. Sears made quality products also.

I still have a Kenmore vacuum cleaner that's
at least 30 years old and works perfectly.

[mdbl]

92. The other problem was Amazon started it's first years purposely working at a loss

They used that time to undercut all the other retailers until they became in surmountable, then raised all their prices. I watched their investors allow this to happen on purpose. It used to be a running joke that Amazon hasn't made any money yet - until it did.

[ProfessorGAC]

98. Yeah, And The Execs At Sears...

...were probably telling that same joke until there was no Sears.
But, nobody is laughing now.
If Amazon's investors were willing to suffer zero return until they took hold, Sears investors may have been willing to take take zero dividends & a short term valuation drop to hold off the coming freight train.
Brennan fiddled while Sears burned & Lampert self-immolated what was left. That idiot lost $624 million of his own money.
Geniuses, they weren't.

[IbogaProject]

36. Sears blew it in the 1990s

They failed to reinvorgate their mail-order business by growing an online presence. Instead they kept pushing to make the next few quarters look the best at the expense of losing their entire retail empire. Because it would be a grind the market didn't value their investing in making their business stable through reinventing their catalog business. This was so crazy as mail-order supremacy coupled with a retail presence is how they grew into a behemouth. Macy's is just the last one standing simply via aquisitions and having the most prominant presence in NYC that kept them in contact with the capital class.

[RVN VET71]

107. I seem to remember Sears hiring a CEO who set executives and managers against each other in life-or-death competition,

rewarding the survivors by allowing them to keep their positions -- and throwing the losers in the trash. Some here remember all this better than I do. It just seemed to me like a rule of the jungle approach to building a corporation -- one in which, alas, the jungle's denizens were constrained to devour each other.

I'm sure the douche of a CEO left his job with a rather large golden parachute while all the little people simply lost theirs and struggled to find other work.

[buzzycrumbhunger]

48. There are alternatives to Amazon...

Even eBay is better.

The biggest thing to piss me off about Amazon is that I get free books to review before they’re officially on sale, and unless you’ve spent at least $25-50 on Amazon in the last while, they reject book reviews—which fucks over authors they should be promoting. I always review on Goodreads, as well, but I know it doesn’t help the author nearly as much.

[Srkdqltr]

62. Ebay is nowhere near the same. You are buying from other people's houses. No.

I have thousands of books on Amazon, most free some bought. I don't have to keep them in my house and can read at any time.
I never had a good outcome on Ebay.

[mdbl]

65. Are they free without the Prime membership?

If not then they aren't free.

[Srkdqltr]

71. They deliver stuff i need , no added expense, next day. I read a lot so the prime service

Pays for itself. But then im old, don't like to shop, stuff i need isn't always easy to find. Like I said, for me it pays for itself
When I was young and agile I would probably feel like you.

[Emrys]

91. Many eBay sellers are full-time businesses. They have to register with eBay as such.

I use eBay a lot for household and personal purchases because where I live is quite remote. Some of the best buying experiences I've had on eBay have been with sales from private individuals.

You just have to do your homework by checking out item descriptions and seller feedback etc.

eBay's search function is way more transparent and easy to use than Amazon's. If you check eBay search results properly, you can almost always find ones that include free delivery. With some practice and care, I can regularly undercut prices charged by sellers on Amazon for most items. Used items in particular can be great bargains from trusted sellers, with a bonus of environmental benefits. Funnily enough, I've bought a few books on eBay where the sale was actually processed through Amazon.

I've had a few issues with sellers over many years of buying there, but eBay and PayPal have robust protections in place that strongly favour buyers nowadays, and I've been able to resolve any fairly rare problems quite easily. I can't say the same about my few dealings with Amazon.

[Maru Kitteh]

117. Most people don't want to "do their homework" every time they need TP.

Most people don’t want to have to worry about digging through online reviews of the qualities of a particular seller for routine purchases of everyday, familiar products and daily needs.

[Emrys]

119. I don't buy toilet paper online

I don't know anyone who does, either.

I generally buy items that are hard to track down in shops in nearby towns (saving me a lot of time, frustration, gas and shoe leather) or used items that are a lot more affordable than new ones and often indistinguishable.

I don't see why my choices in this would bother you or anyone.

Above all, I avoid Amazon as far as I possibly can because of the really shitty way they often treat their staff, but that's just my stance.

[lonely bird]

75. The problem is

It is not benevolence. It is inherently not benevolent.

Corporations of any and all kinds do not have consciences. Only humans have consciences. The humans running a corporation can and sometimes do express values but the drive for money/wealth appears to inevitably result in something that is in opposition to those values. See Ben & Jerry’s.

The same applies to wealth. The Myth of the Good Billionaire covers this.

[OLDMDDEM]

29. We but online, Amazon mainly, and have for many years.

[Bluetus]

37. Of all the systems mentioned, Amazon is the least shitty

That is because they make their money SELLING TO users. All the other platforms (FB and such) SELL THEIR USERS.

It is the old axiom, if the product is free, YOU are the product.

That is not entirely true yet on Amazon, but I'm sure they are working on it.

[meadowlander]

56. I think the point of the article is that those people who do rely on Amazon have a right to expect a better service

not that Amazon itself is shit.

[mdbl]

67. Bezos is shit

Which is why I avoid Amazon.

[Be Leave On]

61. convenience

Convenience is the same motivation cited by those who cross picket lines.

[mdbl]

100. No, poor planning or plain greed causes someone to cross a picket line.

[Be Leave On]

106. convenient

It is convenient to avoid the problems caused by poor planning.
Or by greed.

[Coventina]

124. GIVE ME CONVENIENCE OR GIVE ME DEATH!

[DBoon]

85. You do understand that therre are online markets that are NOT Amazon?

If I want a book, I see if the publisher has an online site. If not I go to Powell's

If I want tools, I might go to Home Depot or Lowes. You can order online from either of these.

Most clothing brands have their own website that allow you to bypass Amazone.

I would rather spend a couple of minutes clicking around than put more money into multi-billionaire Bexos' pocket.

[Raine]

93. Exactly nt

[RandomNumbers]

3. Well, a slightly contrarian point

1. First paragraph - well, actually, you don't. You just need to know where to find the magic button. Which FB makes hard to find, for some reason. (Left side menu, select Feeds (but first you may have to "show more" or some such nonsense, because it is near the bottom), then in the page that appears, select Friends. THAT said, just doing it now, I suspect (not sure) that the algorithm is selecting WHICH of my friends' posts it wants to actually show me in this feed, and doing it rather badly.

2. I am "guilty" of being a long-time Amazon user and without going into details, I find that some things are still quite good and the reason I keep using it, is because the services I use are not easily replaceable for me. YMMV on that one. (I am aware that they play capitalist games with their customers and I am watchful to play this game carefully ... still better than what alternatives exist. For me, so far.)

[CrispyQ]

7. Regarding searching on Amazon, do you know why when I enter something like "women's blue jeans,"

the page will flash with a grid of blue jeans & often times I see something I really like, but then it immediately refreshes with a new set of blue jeans, none of which are the first ones I saw. It's infuriating! Often times I can never find the original jeans they showed, so why have it flash on the page at all? What's the reason behind this?

Also, TY for the FB info. I will try that today. The changing algorithms are infuriating.

[erronis]

8. I can't say for sure, but what is probably happening is the first page you see is the actual items, unsorted.

Then Amazon sorts the items in the order it wants and almost instantly shows you the new results.

This final result page is usually filtered by "Featured" which is apparently the ones they want to put in front of our eyeballs first - more profit for them.

[CrispyQ]

44. I hadn't noticed the featured box until this thread.

IMO, Zillow is the absolute worst site ever. I have never visited a site that is so unfriendly. WTF? Moving around in that site is a nightmare.

[RandomNumbers]

9. Wish I could help.

The one thing I rarely buy on Amazon is clothes. Unfortunately I'm now forced (I think) to buy my sneakers on Amazon because the chain store where I bought them - and I prefer to buy them in a store, where I can try on a pair - has stopped selling the ONE brand that fits my feet well.

I tried your query and didn't have the experience you describe. But I don't usually buy clothes online. Maybe Amazon thinks it knows what you like so is trying to "jump" to that. If that's what's going on, sounds like their algorithm needs some work.

My biggest issue with search on Amazon is that I can enter a specific brand, and it will often show me a lot of other brands, and not necessarily list the brand I asked for first. Or even have the brand I want as an option in the filter. Aaargh. Still, for routine purchases of household supplies, they beat the regular stores hands-down. Especially since brick and mortar stores have a very bad habit of discontinuing stuff I like. When they do that it usually drives me to look for the option I like on Amazon, rather than trying whatever "alternative" the store is now offering.

[CrispyQ]

42. It's not just blue jeans, it's anything. And almost every search.

It's not a huge deal but it's frustrating when you see a flash of something that looks interesting & then you can't find it again. And yes, that brand thing. I've had that happen too. I wonder sometimes, if these big companies ever have real customers test their apps before putting into production. My online grocery store app doesn't show my shopping cart by department but rather by the order I put groceries in it. WTF?

[The Revolution]

79. Amazon UI has been horrible lately

Recently, if you have an item in your cart, it pops up a cart overlay on the right side that covers things on the page with no way to access them.

You may not use AWS, but the page that has information on the different instance types is horrible now. I think it must have been written by AI.

[IbogaProject]

40. You have to click some to clean up those results

Prime, & Returns allowed are the first two things to check. Just this week I'm starting to like "most purchased" as an initial tool to find what people are buying. With clothes you have to pay attention to brands to find brands that fit your figure best over time. Here in midtown NYC we have super easy Amazon returns, not sure about the suburbs.

[CrispyQ]

43. Thank you! I just noticed that little box in the upper right. -nt

[hunter]

10. It's easier and more satisfying to me to delete entities like Facebook and Amazon from my personal universe...

... than it is to be always wary of their trickery.

[RandomNumbers]

18. Yeah but even with their games, Amazon provides services

that unfortunately some of us can't find elsewhere.

FWIW - To my knowledge, Bezos did, at least initially, have a big part in the early innovations that made Amazon the capitalist behemoth it is today. That is a stark contrast to Musk, who basically just made smart purchases of existing ideas. I think Bezos is a bit of a worm in many ways, but that more as a product of his success and forgetting what normal people should be like; whereas Musk appears to have been born and bred as a horrible person. So I don't have as much anathema for Amazon as some do, who would class Bezos and Musk as the same ilk. (and yes I know that Bezos doesn't run Amazon anymore. More reason not to conflate dislike of billionaire Bezos with Amazon.)

[hunter]

21. I may return to Amazon when they feel the pressure of government regulation and labor unions again.

Inadequately regulated they are a very dangerous entity.

[Orrex]

22. regarding #1

When I select "Friends" as you've suggested, my feed is still about 80% ads.

And am I correct in thinking that you have to manually select feed-->friends every time you log in? Or does it stay selected?

[RandomNumbers]

25. Not sure

I'm on and off FB. I have friends and family that use it a lot. So I'll go for a spell without using it at all, then feel like I need to check in with folks that way.
I haven't found a way to have the Friends Feed set as default. Maybe someone else here will let us know.

And yes, I get a ton of ads too, but at least not so much of the clickbait b.s. posts.

[Hekate]

38. If you have a way to get me out of the FB trap on photos, I would appreciate it

I stay away from FB for reasons of my own, but if I follow certain links from DU, bingo, there I am again at my own home page and end up scrolling and staying awhile, reading a curated version of the lives of people I once knew.

So there I was a couple of months ago and saw a button at the bottom of the page I was on asking me if I wanted to give them access to my personal and formerly private photos. I clicked on the button thinking it would take me to an info page with a yes/no or opt in/opt out feature. Because my answer was going to be: Hell No.

Instead, I was promptly informed that FB now and presumably forever had access to all my personal photos from my iPhone and iPad for blah blah blah you will love this feature.

[RandomNumbers]

41. Yikes!

I went looking for a setting to turn that off. I didn't find anything obvious. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have deliberately added that (same reaction as you) but also probably wouldn't have clicked that button.

Best advice I can give is to generally scour your FB privacy settings. Their area for that seems unnecessarily convoluted ... hmmm, I wonder why? But for what you mention it is probably worth spending some time with it. You may come across a way to contact them to try to get some live human help. But I'd be prepared to be on hold for awhile.

[Mr. Mustard 2023]

11. Your point is well taken, but the enshittification of...

...digital platforms is also capitalism. Have a good product making a zillion dollars? Change it to make more money of course and if your customers don't buy more of your stuff, trick them.

[CrispyQ]

20. Some companies are so big, & their competitors too, that they just don't care if they piss their customers off.

ATT figures that even as they're pissing off some of their customers & might lose them, T-mobile & Verizon are doing the same. It's infuriating.

Back in the 90s, when companies started outsourcing all the good tech jobs, they told us we were entering the era of customer service. As if. First we had 800 lines with ridiculous wait times & customer service reps we couldn't understand, & now we have online chat sessions that start with a bot & when you do finally connect with someone, they're helping other customers simultaneously, & besides they have a script, which often times doesn't cover the solution you need.

I hate corporate America, or maybe I should call it corporate Earth.

[MineralMan]

12. Well, you're right about some of that, and wrong about other things.

I use Facebook, because friends and family members are on it. But, I have limited my feed to only people who are in my friends list. It's not that easy to find how to do that, but it's not that hard, either. I've also made it not possible for non-friends to message me. Really, if you aren't on my friends list, it's very hard for you to even find my presence there. Still, I'm able to browse FB however I please. Passively. I do not engage with non-friends.

Amazon? Well I don't have Prime account. My wife does. If I want to order something and get it faster, I email her with a link to it and she orders it. I don't buy a lot of stuff. I do get the occasional gift card from a relative, and I generally buy clothes with those. On the other hand, my wife's PC crashed the other day. The next day, we had a brand new Dell PC on the doorstep, thanks to Amazon, which I set up for her the same day and installed backed-up files to get her up and running again very quickly. In the meantime, she used her Dell laptop, also bought from Amazon. All for less money than I could buy the same items locally, maybe.

Is Amazon a monopoly? Not really, unless it's books you're talking about. But, you can certainly buy almost anything that is new from Amazon for less than local costs and it will show up like clockwork at your door. That's worth a lot to me. Or, try to buy some 35" waist jeans with a 32" inseam locally. Nobody stocks 35" waist anything. I could wear 36" waist jeans, but I prefer 35." Amazon always has them in stock, ready to ship. That counts for something, too.

Am I a fan. No, not really. But I like convenience. I know what I want to buy, so the place that has it in stock and sells it for a good price is going to get my order. Most often, that place is Amazon.

[llmart]

26. I'm curious as to why you said Amazon's selling of books is a "monopoly".

[MineralMan]

74. Most people have not been in a bookstore

In years.

[llmart]

89. Okay. I see what you were getting at.

Our Barnes and Noble here is always busy. Our library has five used book sales every year and we also have an account with Amazon where we sell the more valuable books. We have quite an inventory of used books. You'd be surprised how many people come to our used book sales and how packed the very large room gets.

[MineralMan]

108. Bookstores that have stayed in business do seem to be busy.

However, there are far fewer brick and mortar bookstores than there were in the past. Fewer bookstores of all kinds, including used book stores. Those that remain have customers, though, at least for now.

Libraries are still being used, as well, although their focus is changing. People use them now, though for far more than borrowing books. I volunteered in a small library for several years, four hours, once a week. But, libraries are not as much a center of activity as they once were.

People's reading habits have changed drastically. Paper magazine publishers by the thousands have closed their doors, too.

It's a complicated mess is what it is. Deplorable, too.

[llmart]

112. I worked in libraries for 10 years.

Public library and law school library. The library I volunteer in now is always hopping!

[MineralMan]

113. I love libraries!

Everyone should love libraries!

[ShazzieB]

27. This is how I feel about it, too.

Am I a fan. No, not really. But I like convenience. I know what I want to buy, so the place that has it in stock and sells it for a good price is going to get my order. Most often, that place is Amazon.

This is how I feel about Amazon in a nutshell! Ditching them to take a stand against the capitalist "evils" they represent would, for me, feel like cutting off my nose to spite my face. I'm just not altruistic enough to do that.

[h2ebits]

49. I am also not a fan but. . . .

I use Amazon occasionally and play their game of "how not to pay for shipping."

Mostly, I comparison shop online and have found other places that are cheaper than Amazon sometimes so I order that way. By and large, I actually shop since I like to choose my vegetables and fruits myself and try on clothes & shoes, etc.

[IbogaProject]

45. One big problem with Amazon is their Sku mixing

They mix everyone's inventory and the countries where most of the Amazon wares arise have a culture of anything goes. So the defects and seconds end up alongside the regular stock. You have to be careful and even picky with what you get from them and return anything you are even uncertain about promptly. That 30 day window to return is slightly too short to reall evaluate things so you have to be strict and if anything seems off just return or exchange right away.

[MineralMan]

73. You do have to read the listings.

Closely.

[The Revolution]

81. You can share Prime accounts with your household

I don't have it currently, but when I have in the past, I was able to link my wife's Amazon account to mine so that we got the Prime benefits with both.

[Skittles]

96. I'm just curious

but why would you have separate accounts?

[The Revolution]

97. We both had them from before we met

So we still have them. We mostly use mine, but there are reasons to keep both. With multi factor authentication, signing in requires a code from my phone. Maybe there is a way to link authentication as well, but I haven't tried. Also we can hide gifts for each other

[Skittles]

99. ahhhhh OK

makes sense

[PatSeg]

14. "Enshittification"

Oh, that word is a keeper!

[calimary]

58. Definitely!

“Enshittification.” Says it all.

[PatSeg]

60. I'm adding it to my personal dictionary!

[calimary]

63. It's definitely "a thing" now!

And a most WELCOME thing, at that!

[Tetrachloride]

15. Google has been diluting results for a long time.

I'd be interested in another search engine. Even if subscription based.

[Pinback]

24. Try DuckDuckGo.

It’s a privacy-centered engine that I’ve been using for a few years. Not perfect, but at least it’s not a front for a data-hoovering and surveillance operation like Google.

https://www.duckduckgo.com

DDG uses a combination of inputs to deliver search results, as explained here:
https://thedroidguy.com/does-duckduckgo-use-bing-results-the-ultimate-search-engine-guide-1261346

[Tetrachloride]

28. I generally use DDG. However, I still sense dilution. Wikipedia is far and away my top general source.

[Pinback]

32. Agreed, Wikipedia is tops for info searches.

For general web searches I use DuckDuckGo. They also offer a free temporary disposable email service that’s excellent.

[Tetrachloride]

33. ty. that's news to me on the email

[Pinback]

50. Info here:

https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/email-protection/what-is-duckduckgo-email-protection

[Historic NY]

17. Invest in an ad blocker. they do work//

some US News based digital news is loaded with crap

[Tetrachloride]

34. the browser Brave is what I use for all general reading.

but not financial transactions.

Built in ad-blocking.

Site by Site preferences is possible !!!!

[h2ebits]

51. I use Firefox as my browser. . .

it has an Ad Blocker that works well for my needs.

[oldinmtdem92]

19. the enshitting of america

trump , bit coin , citizens united, things that should be illegal .

[Grins]

23. "scroll past 10 screens of (slop) - just to get to one post"

Yes! Annoying to the point of ignoring.

Also - the sheer tonnage in ads in every screen you are on that pop up over and over again, to the point they overwhelm the content you want!

My having a couple apps up at the same time, the ads block the content. In every link I open I have to “x” a pop-up to see the content. Close it - up pops another one!

Worse (I think) is The New York Post, but even DU does this.

I once counted ads while watching sports one night: ads on player uniforms, players hats and helmets, ads by the scores around the venue, the time clock, the floors, playing fields, ice rinks, and even the arena name itself, the “Domino’s Sports Update,” (or some other corporation) break-ins, the XYZ Pregame show, the halftime show brought to you by some drink/sandwich company, the ABC post game show, etc., etc.

Three years ago - a new one. A touchdown in a College football game leading to the kick for an extra point. Up comes the goal post netting and emblazoned on the netting: “Allstate Insurance.”

Screwed then all!

[ms liberty]

66. Become a star member and you're ad free.

[Grins]

122. You assume this is the only site I visit.

[ms liberty]

123. You assume that is what I think; your assumption is incorrect.

[LisaM]

30. We all understand that some people need to use online services.

The problem is that those of us who don't want to use it, or to be forced online at all, have lost our other choices. I have perfectly abled friends who freely admit to an Amazon addiction.

I know people who shopped from catalogues for years, but at one time, they seemed compatible with brick and mortar stores and functioning shopping districts.

[meadowlander]

59. Yep.

It's basically impossible where I live now to have a bank account unless you also have a Smartphone. They want two factor authentication for everything with no other options (eg security questions) provided. I can't even log into my account online to check my balance without having to dig around for my phone somewhere in the other room first.

Increasingly it's the assumption that everyone in the world: 1.) owns a Smartphone at an entry level cost of $200+ not including monthly service costs and 2.) everyone carries that phone around with them constantly.

I don't care if people want to do this as an option, but increasingly "opting out" is not an option even when this brazenly requires people to pay out of pocket to access basic functions that enable them to live.

[mdbl]

68. I too had the Amazon addiction. Ease, free shipping, etc

But when I saw Bozos sitting next to Dump and pandering to him by ruining the Washington Post, I was done. F' him and his businesses.

[love_katz]

77. Agreed.

I dumped Amazon for the same reasons. The best way to punish the oligarchs for their attempts to take over and destroy our democracy, is to close our wallets.
I was a very good customer for Amazon, and I had a Prime membership, but I dumped them when I saw greedy and smug Bezos sucking up to Pisswig. Bezos doesn't deserve another penny of my money if he's going to support a dictator!
I really miss the convenience because I really hate shopping, and I lost a lot of money in Kindle books and music. It made me aware that we don't really own those items like when we buy physical copies, we just pay (repeatedly) for access.
I'm old, so I do miss the convenience and the ability to do no contact shopping (most people aren't wearing masks anymore), but Amazon's union busting and Bezos' support of Comb Over Caligula were just a bridge too far.
A bonus is that I am saving money by not having constant pop up notifications about items from my wishlist being on sale.

[LisaM]

111. Amazon has always been a problem, starting with the tax issue.

They had to be forced to charge sales tax at first. Then they undersold bookstores for years and operated at no profit for a long time just to get market share. Bookstores could not compete. Bye bye bookstores. And Bezos admitted he just used books to get into the online business.

Before Amazon, downtown Seattle was a shopping mecca. Now it's a ghost town. The last new book store downtown closed a few years ago. There used to be at least a half dozen.

As Amazon dealt in other goods, those stores left too. It sucks.

[mdbl]

94. The still existing brick and mortar stores all have ecommerce sites

I still use them to buy what might also be on amazon.

[flvegan]

31. The Great Enshittening has been upon us since the 80's.

Good article/better rant, though.

Remember when cable tv came to town, and it arrived with more channels, flawless "reception" and NO commercials? Yeah, that was a good couple of years. Remember when home appliances, like your fridge, washing machine and even your tv lasted for decades? Good times. We've been well trained to just suck it up, this is how it is.

I'm not defending Amazon. Full disclosure, I've been a Prime member for years. I will say that I greatly appreciated it during the pandemic, as it limited the need to go out amongst the general public. Shit, still do and for that very same reason. If it costs me an extra dollar (which I'll save in gas, but whatever) to keep me ensconced away from the fucking mouthbreathers and their poorly parented children then so fucking be it.

I don't blindly consume, and I do shop around (online) for the best deal. Unfortunately, most of the time it's still Amazon.

And there's that word, "consume" right there. We've been trained to do just that. Maybe you don't NEED the newest iPhone, or 14 pairs of shoes, or a 247" television. Maybe that new fridge with the cool tv screen on the door that will show you more fucking ads isn't such a great choice. Most of us (and I count myself in that measure) could do a little better and live a little more simply and not just consume. But then, that's not what we've been trained to do.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

35. "It uses its overview of merchants' sales, as well as its ability to observe the return addresses on direct shipments fr

It uses its overview of merchants’ sales, as well as its ability to observe the return addresses on direct shipments from merchants’ contracting factories, to cream off its merchants’ bestselling items and clone them, relegating the original seller to page umpty-million of its search results.

[RobinA]

39. So It's Not Just Me?

I thought my mental health was in jeopardy, because to me for the past couple years everything just sucks. Things that didn't use to suck now do. Everything is 10 times harder to accomplish than it used to be. Here I am switching antidepressants!

[IbogaProject]

46. This all comes down to our Economic and Monetary systems

Our money is created "At Interest" but they never create the interest. That abomination fueled colonialism, slavery, extractive industries destrotying the environment and the constantly trying to whittle down labor's share of the pie. This all feeds the having to chase the next few financial quarters over planning anything sustainable. And our constitution bars having an asset tax to recapture these dragon hoards held by our Billionares, so until we can admend to allow for recapturing these huge over size piles of assets we are forced to fiddle at the edges of a selfperputuating machine. This system demands infinite growth on a finite planet. And it is extimated to sustain economic growth at 20th century levels there are only enough estimated resources in our Galaxy to last maybe 4 to 4,500 years into the future of this breakneck economic growth rate.

[marble falls]

47. We've noticed that we always have to pay attention to the details.

[marybourg]

52. I like Amazon way more than I like the Guardian.

[mdbl]

69. Not me. There's nothing left in the USA to read that's not Foxified.

[marybourg]

70. Well, the Guardian may not be foxified, but I do find it to be smugified,

schadenfreude- ified and frequently missing the nuances of American life. While Amazon has been a life-enhancer to me, supplying me with an unending supply of cozy mystery books, British comedy videos and any and all the specialty food my medical condition requires as well as everything to keep my life comfortable and free of stressful store shopping.

[progree]

53. I've been screwed so many times by 3rd party sellers on Amazon, in the last few years

that I will no longer buy from 3rd party sellers unless it's some basic commodity type of thing that isn't easy to screw around with

Electronics particularly --

A Dell external DVD - the description said the software was downloadable online, but it wasn't

A Brothers color ink cartridge set that supposedly was in original packaging (and showed a picture of the box), but came without the box. The key thing is that the box has the expiration date on it, so there was no way to know how old these cartridges are.

A Brothers black ink cartridge, where the expiration date was covered by a "recycle responsibly" sticker, and when I peeled that off, the expiration code was blacked out. But I could hold it up to the light and see the expiration date, and of course it was long past expired.

A NEW Dell monitor with built-in speakers. What I got was a different model without speakers, and the box had "Refurbished" on it.

In all cases, I always buy things "sold by" Amazon and ships from Amazon, unless they don't have the item I need. (I would never think of going with a 3rd party seller to save a little money, or even dumber to try to save a lot of money)

From now on, if Amazon doesn't sell it directly, I will order direct from the manufacturer and likely pay a higher price plus a shipping charge, and will have to endure watching for separate packages for each such thing I buy, which is a PITA.

Edited to add I've never been screwed by the Guardian

[mdbl]

114. I had the same problem when I was buying from Amazon 3rd party

Got to the point where I anticipated problems any time I bought from them. Then they all had different return policies, etc.

[EarthAbides]

54. Etsy is the best example of this!

It started out as a cool place to get handmade items, now it is filled with crap that shop owners order from China. At first, Etsy tried to get rid of these shops, but then Etsy realized they can make a lot of money off these shops. Sadly, for me, they are the only game in town where I can sell my fabric magnetic letters for toddlers. But they have raised their cut of my sales and shipping costs have raised dramatically that I am trying to figure out what to do next...

[WestMichRad]

57. Because their business model is to...

f**k over as many suppliers and customers as possible.

[Richard_GB]

64. Amazon got on my boycott list

When Bezos attended Trump’s inauguration.

[mwb970]

72. What exactly is wrong with Amazon?

I order things from them all the time. Free shipping, huge selection, easy ordering, free returns - not really a problem for me. I haven't been inside any physical store except the supermarket for years and years. Traffic, parking woes, gas expense, limited selection, long lines - not for me, sorry.

[RobinA]

76. Well, First For Me

is it used to have a very reliable search function. Want a Speed Queen, hot pink washing machine, front loader, with an extra spin cycle. Search and ye shall find. If it exists. Now? Get all kinds crap that doesn't match your search. Search for anything and get a boatload of budget store crap from companies that probably don't exist. Even when you include a brand in the search.

[mwb970]

78. I have never had this problem.

I've been ordering from them for almost 30 years. However, I urge you to not buy from them as it is obviously not working out for you.

[mwb970]

121. Again, I am sorry you have had poor results.

I have not experienced the problems you describe.

[hunter]

118. Once I quit Amazon I discovered I don't need or want anything I can't get locally...

... usually within a mile or two of my home.

Amazon was always figuring out new ways for me to spend my money.

I've pretty much returned to my traditional lifestyle of rice, legumes, random fruits and vegetables, and stuff I find in thrift stores.

I browse and buy books new and used at our local bookstore and ebooks from bookshop.org.

I can live a very full life without Amazon.

[mwb970]

120. Fantastic! But my results and preferences are different from yours.

[love_katz]

80. Please read the full article.

It's worth your time.

[mdbl]

90. I did read the full article before I made this post.

[love_katz]

102. My comment was for the rest of the readers on the thread.

It wasn't aimed at you in any way.

[mdbl]

115. Oh ok. Sorry, I misunderstood.

[love_katz]

116. Excellent article and discussion, by the way.

Thank you very much for posting it.

[The Revolution]

82. This stood out to me

It was under this theory that Jimmy Carter started to remove a few of the Jenga blocks from the antitrust system. Then Ronald Reagan came along and tore them out by the fistful. (Most of the rightwing policies for which we remember Reagan started under Carter, who was hoping to woo conservative voters. He failed.) Every president since – Republican or Democrat – has followed Reagan’s example, up to (but not including) Joe Biden.

Biden was the President progressives have been waiting for, but in the end I feel that the left wing of the party went after him the hardest

[paulkienitz]

83. search, social media, online shopping, app stores, video games, streaming -- all enshittified

In hindsight, the very first tech medium to turn enshittified was probably AM radio, followed by broadcast TV.

I can't wait for general artificial enshittified intelligence.

[UpInArms]

84. Thank you for posting

Worth reading ever single word

[Scrivener7]

86. Good article. We just love to dance with the bringers of our own destruction.

And you just can't convince a large percentage of people of their folly in doing that.

[OC375]

87. Unrecognizable

2/3rds of the brand names on Amazon in any category are names I've never heard of, who barely appear when Googled except where others have posted asking if anyone has heard of them. Half the listings for sny given product is the same items, made for 29 cents in Asia, listed by the same sellers under dfferent names, using slightly different descriptions. I have to wade through some much crap to find anything I'd actually expect to last more than 12 months, it's pitiful.

[TheJillMill]

88. But Mackenzie Scott...

... is not only Bezos' former wife but a cofounder. If I boycott Amazon, which I use a lot, I'd not be contributing to her billions of dollars of philanthropy. In July 2024, she was named the 43rd richest person in the world, and all her grants are "no strings attached." Kind of balances things out.

https://www.ceotodaymagazine.com/2025/02/mackenzie-scotts-monumental-donations-a-legacy-of-philanthropy/

[Pinback]

101. She's doing a lot of good in the world

and will be just fine with a little less money from Amazon.

[Battle Blue]

95. Amazon has Paid Trump Millions & Now Hosts the Trump Official Store

plus gave the Trump administration a BILLION dollar coupon for free services and, about the Trump store, it has special perks as a political store no other seller has.

This is after ...

Internal documents showed Amazon has been intentionally trashing its search results to not show the best product for you. The idea is to make people click around with Amazon profiting from every click which is paid by sellers (which is then passed on to you with higher prices).

Someone earlier in this thread said Amazon is respectable for making its money from sales, but that isn't quite so and one of the reasons for the article.

[LT Barclay]

103. The Yahoo model. I used to be active in a bunch of Yahoo groups. Then they weren't happy with ads on the sides and

started inserting them in the discussions. People stopped using them, it wasn't profitable to keep them, Yahoo groups gone. Then Yahoo decided to copy Google's algorithm for searches and you couldn't find anything past he ads.
The whole internet will be like that soon because they are going to try to find more and more ways to extract as much money as possible. It will be interesting to see how our other institutions (public and private) adapt when no one can get to their services through the web either.

[IcyPeas]

104. Amazon searches are so bogus..... for example

I'll be searching for something as simple as a cotton top or cotton tee shirt. Most of the results are not cotton . If you read the description it'll say polyester or nylon or whatever. So why do these non-cotton items show up? I know a lot of results are sponsored... they pay for their product to come up on top.

I've typed in 100% cotton.... even gone into the filter and choose cotton there... you still get lousy results. I don't know why an algorithm would do that.

Better luck just searching Google for cotton tops.

[progree]

105. Add ShipT - Target's grocery delivery service - to the BEWARE LIST

I have an annual auto-renewing membership to ShipT, a grocery (and other) shopping and delivery service similar to Instacart..

On 9/4/2024 I got an email alerting me that my membership would auto-renew on 10/4/2024 and my card will be charged then. Great, thanks for the warning, this is how it should be done. I also got an email 10/4/2024 telling me it has been renewed and my card has been charged.

This year: no warning, I got an email 10/4/2025 that my membership is renewed and my card has been charged $99. And yes, it shows up as Pending at my credit card company.

I last used the service December 2023, and given that there was no warning of pending renewal this year like I got last year, I figured they wouldn't be auto-renewing me. I even checked a few days ago if I had missed or mis-remembered a warning email this year, and no, there is no such email.

I have a number of auto-renewing subscriptions like this (e.g. annual magazine subscriptions), and they have ALL sent warnings weeks in advance. Given that, and given that ShipT last year sent me a warning, and given that they have done a very good job in the past resolving issues, I felt I'd be OK. But no.

Yes, a few days ago, when I was wondering about it, I should have logged in and checked to see if there was any information about an upcoming renewal (I'm not sure it would have told me).

Another reason for feeling safe, is that ShipT, while not perfect, has had excellent customer service during the period 9/21/23 - 12/23/23 that I used them. Not only prompt and personal responses to some issues I had, but even giving me a $5 extra credit or somesuch for the inconvenience (this happened at least once).

Maybe they still do have excellent customer service (leaving aside the no warning email) and that they will resolve this issue and the charge will be reversed ... we shall see. I will add any further info here, and also start a new thread if they refuse to refund the $99.

Anyway, the take-away is never assume you will be given advance warning of an auto-renewing membership, even if you have received such warnings from them in the past. Put ALL auto-renewing memberships and subscriptions' anniversary dates (and warnings one month in advance) on your calendar.

[dwayneb]

109. This was the plan from Day 1 of the Internet

Well at least in it's infancy. It was instantly obvious to every good Capitalist that it could be used to entrance us and then finally to enslave us.

[dwayneb]

110. How to search for something on Amazon like the old days

About 2 years ago, Amazon decided to get rid of their boolean operators in the search (like putting a - sign in front of things you wished to exclude). This was deliberate. This way they can force you to look at a lot of crap that they are trying to steer you to buy. They don't WANT you to filter down to the exact item you want, because they can't extract as many $$$ of obscene profit from you that way.

For now you can get around this by searching on Google and using the boolean operators the way you used to on Amazon, just search in the domain Amazon.com.

FOR NOW. Because Google is dumbing down their search engine and will surely get rid of that ability at some point in the future too. It gives far too much power to users.