I'm just now coming around to this.

[bigtree]

...shit is really escalating out there, and the leaders in charge of the government right now are just fanning the flames. We need to be better.

Captain Mark Kelly @CaptMarkKelly
The attacker on the LDS church in Michigan was a murderer. Who he voted for doesn’t matter. This kind of evil isn’t left or right — it’s just evil.

And to overcome it, we all have to reject it without pointing fingers.

8:02 PM · Sep 29, 2025

Link to tweet

[Irish_Dem]

1. Angry white MAGA males are hunting down Americans.

It is time to face reality and call them domestic terrorists.

And yes I am pointing my GD finger at these angry white MAGA males.

[bigtree]

4. I went looking for that and found that it's becoming a back and forth thing

...with every perp talking about vengence as if they were doing something other than just putting themselves and others at risk with their own behavior.

I'm well aware of the balance of reciepts, but it's not about that right now. We look to be on the verge of a wave of retaliatory violence spurred on by recrimination and political grievance, whatever the source of their anger or paranoia.

This requires even handed leadership focused on the violence and not the excuses perps are using. We can start with our own people, and challenge republicans to do the same.

[Irish_Dem]

6. I cannot and will not give angry white MAGA males a pass.

And pretend that they are not deliberately hurting down Americans.

If women, POC, LGBT groups were doing all of this killing they would
be eliminated.

White males constitute only 30% of the US population but they
are destroying the rest of us.

They get no cover from me.

[bigtree]

10. okay, no one here is actually doing that

...consider the source.

[ananda]

15. This all feels like man splaining to me.

Whar we need to address, if we want to be
a decent society, is our angry white male
problem.

[bigtree]

18. jesus that's vile

...KELLY HAS ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED VIOLENCE FIRSTHAND IN HIS FAMILY.

But go on and make what he said about some supposed sexism. What a ridiculous personal attack.

Can you argue the issue without the derisions? If not, just leave the insult and be done. I don't deserve this shit and neither does Kelley.

[Irish_Dem]

44. This is what makes his lecturing us all the more perplexing.

[Irish_Dem]

43. You made a post with a quote from Kelly about "Not Pointing Fingers" at the perps.

1. I don't like being lectured or told what to do.
2. Especially when it comes to calling out vicious murderers.
MAGA males hunting down Americans.
3. I am pointing my fingers right at young angry white males with guns.

[ananda]

14. And yes, I'm right there beside you!

!!!

[niyad]

31. Have you noticed? Does not matter where, but we can't talk about angry white males,

we can't point out sexism and patriarchy, becuse they simply are not important, etc., etc. Does not matter what the topic is. It is weirdly fascinating, in addition to being frustrating and disappointing.

[bigtree]

32. everyone can see that NO ONE here said don't talk about white males

...but it's not even true that white maledom iis the cause of ALL of the individual acts of violence, or that only white males kill or threaten anyone. What an absurd view of individual acts of violence.

And claiming that what Mark or I said here is defending white males is really vile and just completely false.

You're making things up and projecting this onto people making an entirely different point.

And goddamn it. To have someone who doesn't know spit about my life experience accusing me of this is ...

[niyad]

33. I did not say any of those things, so kindly address your remarks to

someone else. The defensive tone of your responses is most interesting.

[bigtree]

36. is it, now?

...you came onto this thread complaining that someone is telling you not to talk about white male violence.

As a black man who has been active in racial and civil rights politics for nearly 50 years now, and subject to the racism that people only talk about, not experience, I find the insinuations you made and are making here to be more than insulting, if that's possible.

The fuck I care about what someone might think of defending myself against their mischaracterizations of me.

[ananda]

34. I know.

I mean whar's behind good men wanting to all sides it?

Or deflect it to another separate but equally
serious problem)?

I really think they want to be good allies, though,
and that is always good.

[Irish_Dem]

45. If women, POC, LGBT were the shooters they would be eliminated.

We cannot even mention angry white men without getting lectured about pointing fingers
by our own side.

[niyad]

30. Right there with you!

[Klarkashton]

2. How about "you first" to maga.

They won't.

[bigtree]

7. how about us first?

...that would have nore impact and credibility.

When have we ever looked to maga to determine our own behavior? That's a self-inflicted notion that can only defeat us.

As my old boss used to say to me as a young manager and leader, don't worry so much about what the other person is doing and not take a minute to ask yourself the same.

[Klarkashton]

8. I don't think so.

These murders have nothing to do with Democrats. These are maga maniacs that have a death wish.
There is nothing that "We" can do.

[bigtree]

21. which murders?

...there have been several shootings and countless threats, several people jailed last week with all sorts of politically based grievances, and certainly not all right wing.

I don't think you're actually addressing those, so I'll just leave it.

[intheflow]

46. But is the violence coming from the left?

I see mass shooting after mass shooting and they are all white conservative men. Maybe they aren’t Republican, they certainly aren’t Democrats or anything resembling leftists. We’ve all seen the stats, violence is overwhelmingly done by the right and it’s not even close.

[bigtree]

47. no question that EXTREMIST violence has shifted far to the right over the last 40 years

...and that a huge percentage of extremist violence has come from the right in the past few decades.

That's generalizing, but pretty close. That's what makes all of the recent incitement from the right from the president on down so consequential, especially since Trump's supporters have already proven to be e threat to actual democracy and cop lives.

What got me here has to do with ny own conviction that Trump had sparked a wave of rw violence that has made up practically all of the shootings, killings, and threats in recent months... almost.

I started a couple days ago with the report about the man who had threatened gay people over the Kirk killing, saying he wanted to kill them in disgusting detail. All on Trump, all on republicans and their trans-terror bullshit.

However, what I also found was that folks who aren't identifying as maga or rw are also, predictably getting animated by all of the hate and entreaties to divide. I saw an escalation in folks who are evidently suffering some kind of mental trauma or disability who are being sparked by all of the things most of us only jawbone about.

I hesitate to post them. Maybe I should, but I'm not there yet. I see more value in what Kelly is saying here. There may come a point where, like me, one recognizes in their own actions and attitudes that some of the things we expect from our political opponents need even more vigilence from those of us who care about such things as comity or non-violence.

Seeing that need out there, the one clear thing that I know I can do is adjust my own behavior, and I think that's a good exercise for everyone, from time to time, to check our own attiitudes and behavior and to make certain that there's not something we can do to help make things better.

So, not withstanding that Trump, maga, republicans, and the rw are some real assholes, it's clear to me that they're now bringing out some of the worst in people that I care about. I have two adult sons living with me, and I noticed long ago that even as my own principles and values are sound, more care is needed to provide a clear and strong example of what is right, and healthy for them.

As you can imagine, tempers run high with young folk who may not be accustomed to coming down from their anger in ways that don't hurt themselves or others. There isn't really room in that effort to indulge in open recrimination that stirs them or anyone else to emotions they may not be able to handle.

I have that ability, and the responsibility to keep them on the right track and to try and keep them from letting their anger come out in unproductive or threatening ways that could very well escalate into violence.

From my own experiences with antagonists in my life, I know there's really no bottom to hatred, and that good behavior must start with each of us, well before we expect others to comport with what we consider right or good.

In short, we can't expect idiots and assholes and the mentally unstable to take responsibility for their own actions, but I believe we can, and should.

Hope that helps.

[multigraincracker]

17. To change behavior,

Ignore bad behavior and
Reward good behavior.

Works with 4 year olds and 40 year olds.
Even with 79 year olds.

[Gimpyknee]

40. It's hard to find any good behavior in one particular 79 year old.

[Eko]

25. We have been doing that for what? 45 years?

While we continuously say that everyone needs to tone it down and that political violence is not the answer what have they been doing? They have been calling for it. From their president on down they have been calling for it. And now they are acting on it. From troops in the cities to kidnapping people and using extraordinary rendition to send people to other countries to the presidents own words about Democrats being evil and then using the power of the Government to label them as terrorists. Jesus they want to kill the homeless!!! And we need to tone it down? I'm sorry I totally disagree, that's just some performative garbage and its not going to change anything because they are still doing it and they are past violent rhetoric now they are using violence against the American people using our government. dump pardoned his terrorists and now they are doing everything they can to make you, and me and everyone on here one not because we did anything but because of the political party we follow. They tell you to tone it down but what they really mean is dont say anything bad about us. I don't need to tone it down because I've never called for political violence. If me saying what they are doing is somehow adding to that then it is not on me its on them because of what they have done and are doing.

[bigtree]

27. I think that incitement is an important element

...not an excuse for violence, but inexcusable, nonetheless, especially in a politically charged atmosphere, blaming the 'left' or some other pol or political group for the actions of people who are nearly insane.

[Gimpyknee]

41. Ari Schaffer may have espoused the best action to take.

[Nictuku]

3. More than anything, to me, it is a Relief to my mind, that it was not one of us.

I, too, wanted to know the background on this guy. Not so much to point fingers, more a relief that it is not another thing they can twist into what I think they really want to do, which is outlaw Democrats.

[bigtree]

9. same

...but I confess to some politicization that I'm now seeing as counter productive to anything more than party politics.

[gab13by13]

16. We will not hear jack shit from law enforcement

nor from the MSM.

Freaking Christopher Wray stated that the #1 threat to America comes from White National Supremacists, WTF would I be nice to them?

I live among them, I understand how bat shit crazy they are, if you get into a fight with one and knock him down, don't let him get up, put the boot to him, he will understand that.

[Srkdqltr]

5. Yes, you are so very right. I would say this about most mass shooters.

[Gaugamela]

11. To write it off as "just evil" makes it sound like Satan made him do it, and that the answer

is religion, which is exactly what Republicans want you to think. I agree that pointing the finger at the other side only fans the flames and makes things worse, but this behavior has a cause, or a set of causes, that need to be examined and addressed. I would say it’s general societal degradation due to forty years of neoliberalism, and Republicans and preachers trash talking government.

[bigtree]

12. Kelly is intimately familiar with gun violence

...and his views are not as shallow as you've represented them here.

I don't read that in the context of religion, probably because I'm not led by my own imagination about life origins, I read it in the context of blaming the act, not the excuses they use for them.

[multigraincracker]

23. I've found that 95% of religions are authoritarian.

Hypocrites too. You get religion to tell you who to love and who to hate.

[Silent Type]

13. I do prefer when we yelled about mental healthcare and guns.

[ananda]

19. But that was when we thought it mattered.

Now all that matters is trying to
hide the fact that maga males are
going on murderous rampages
withthe incitement and blessing
of our leaders.

[bigtree]

24. what about the ones that aren't white maga?

...you'd need to actually take the time to look at what's actually occurred in the past month to come to a full understanding about what I'm talking about.

I seems you're just focusing on the rw associations of perps. I really don't have any interest in posting a list, but I can confidently say that it's not just maga right now.

I know because that's what I had premised my own search on, and couldn't credibly post from the angle that it's only the rw that's been animated to violence by the politics today.

You represent whatever you want, but I'm not speaking out of my belly button. I did the research. Yes, the rw, white males are responsible for the vast majority of extremist violence in the last 40 years.

But that doesn't get us to the point of the other violence that's been sparked among folks who aren't maga or rw.

And ffs, NONE of them make any sense. They all sound like they have mental issues.

None of their excuses for violence justify their acts, and don't deserve to take center stage in our discussions about them - not the voice of their violence.

The people inciting it are another matter entirely.

[Autumn]

20. Back to the when they go low we go high BS.

It's worked so well for us and we really earned their fucking respect.

[Iris]

22. With respect to Kelly and Gifford and their experience, this is not the way. You can't solve a problem you can't or

won't name.

[bigtree]

26. should we name the motives of folks who are perpetrating violence who aren't maga

...after all, those are just excuses for killing people.

Even if some pol said to go out and committ violence on this or that person's or issue's behalf, whose responsibility is it for pulling the trigger?

I understand incitement, and I think Trump needs to be held accountable for it, but you can't get to a universal agreement and understanding that killing is wrong if you allow the excuses they use to obscure their own behavior.

Might interest you to know that ALL of the myriad Jan. 6 perps who claimed Donald made them do it had that excuse rejected one by one by courts and juries.

It's a fools errand arguing about their excuses.

[Iris]

28. This is a societal problem that needs to be addressed holistically and not just as crime and punishment scenario

We need leadership that speaks truth to power and acknowledges there are many factors in our culture that contribute to this problem and then start laying out ways to address them.

When we start labeling people as pure evil, where does that end?

[bigtree]

29. actually he labled the act as evil

...it's just a word, ffs.

What is supposed to happen because he said that?

I'd hope it would influence people against that behavior.

I certainly don't think it encourages anything but maybe self examination for people conrtemplating hurtung others.

[ananda]

37. The act is certanly evil...

but the stochastic terrorism that incites
vulnerable and angry white men to violence
is equally evil.

And right now it's being politically vharged
from the right, especially in order to bring
about another reichstag fire.

[bigtree]

39. I agree and incitement to violence should continue to be called out.

...wherever it comes from (and the right is making a cottage industry out of it)

That's no fucking excuse for people who perpetrate it. None at all.

[ecstatic]

35. I'm sorry but I don't believe this is a both sides thing

And we do have to point fingers because they are pointing fingers at us and putting our lives in jeopardy.

The violence comes from people who are either formerly or currently on the right. The ones who were formerly on the right are not necessarily on the left just because they're having a temporary breakup or whatever the case may be.

"Left-wingers" protest or write strongly worded letters.

[bigtree]

38. there is a good deal of political violence that isn't coming from the rw

...kinda should know that.

I agree with calling out the clear incitement to violence from the right, and fanning flames in this politically charged landscape right now.

[Keepthesoulalive]

42. Have you noticed that every time trump is in office

Violence escalates. He encourages it and uses it for political power. It will not slow down until he leaves one way or another. Whatever we do or say will have no effect because he requires it to manipulate the stupid. On some other sites they are saying we need more guns to protect ourselves against right wing terrorists. None of this makes sense because the man in charge is a walking grievance monster.