Ryder Cup rudeness: Robert Heinlein quote FTW

[303squadron]

A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot.

[NCDem47]

1. It starts at the top. The President sets the tone and mood of country. Trump is a psychopathic boor.

He's given white-male America license to be the same.

[303squadron]

2. Absolutely!!!!

Nt

[Champp]

3. MAGAT Republicans disgraced themselves

again

[yardwork]

6. But a majority of voters put him there.

[TheRickles]

19. Plurality.

[Eliot Rosewater]

51. Not this time they didn't.

or for that matter the first time either.

?si=bMbHO9GfGSldG17j

[Festivito]

79. Gotta spend less time repeating for two hours and more time with who won't recount paper ballots.

90 seconds on actual recount in two hours of babble. C'mon.
Okay, I'm exaggerating. You need to go over the statistics that could show a problem.
But get to where it is checked by paper ballots!

Gotta spend less time repeating for two hours and more time with who won't recount paper ballots.

[Paladin]

17. Bullseye. Thank you. (nt)

[Gimpyknee]

22. This unruliness at the Rider Cup has been going on for years.

American boorish behavior.

[Torchlight]

45. Nope

[Bernardo de La Paz]

46. Do you not think it was boorish?

[Wiz Imp]

77. There has always been some amount of it, but it was far greater this year than ever before.

I don't believe there was ever a need for a police escort for golfers on the course before like was necessary for Rory McIroy and Shane Lowry on Saturday.

Talk about ugly Americans... It was absolutely disgusting.

[Farmer-Rick]

24. Like the MAGAT dentist

Who bragged that she tortures liberals. She gives patients less pain relief if they dare to look uncomfortable about the MAGAT hat she wears while drilling their teeth. Or Kristi Noem shooting puppies.

It seems psychotic behavior is in vogue.

[CharleyDog]

62. Yes, some people are proud of their cruelty.

Bragging about it gives them the thrill of reliving their cruel act that caused pain to someone they are pledged to care for.
Caring. Caring is lacking. We need to know more how so many ppl got this way, and start programs to counteract this mental illness.

[dalton99a]

31. +1

[hlthe2b]

4. I'm not saying we are not a rude country. (I've made a beeline away from other Americans

when I travel and take off all insignia on bags or clothing that would spot me as one as well...) So, I've seen my share of the classic "ugly American" stereotype. But, I DO believe it is so much worse since Trump and his "golden escalator" intro to the world, which gave license to the worst Americans could present.

I fear I will not live long enough to see this turn around. I'm not that old, but this change has so taken hold that I fear it will take decades to see it truly changed for the better. I hope my pessimism is wrong.

[multigraincracker]

11. When I was in Dublin I met a local that told me I

should claim to be Canadian. What a difference that made. I felt the love.

[NBachers]

14. I manage to introduce the words "I'm from San Francisco" to mitigate people's perception of me when traveling.

I figure it gives me a little bit of potential leeway.

[maxsolomon]

60. "We live in Seattle" works wonders, too.

Even if they don't know where it is, they know its full of coffee and Grunge (& Radical Left Lunatics).

[hlthe2b]

15. I worked overseas a lot in the past--including during GWBush* atrocious wars so

I DID let everyone think I was from Canada (especially during my time in the Middle East).

I even still have some Canadian Maple Leaf emblems on a couple of strategic items I took with me. LOL

[Bernardo de La Paz]

26. Americans claiming "Canadian" is stolen valor. . . . nt

[Aristus]

30. No. MAGAts claiming to be "American" is stolen valor.

n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. That too. But Canada & Canadians have earned our reputation the hard way & don't like Americans stealing it

Every American calling themselves Canadian for personal gain gives us another reason to dislike the US of A. We generally like most Americans as individuals, so don't erode that too.

To the point of the OP: An American stealing Canadians' reputation is not polite and part of the down-trend.

[Aristus]

33. I wouldn't call it personal gain as much as protective coloration.

We are the Viceroy butterflies evolving to look like the bad-tasting Monarch butterflies, so we don't get eaten.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

35. Camouflage for personal gain. Americans don't like being sold fake Nike gear. Don't sell counterfeit Canadianness.

If you don't like fake tans, don't put on fake Canadian identity.

Hold yourself to a higher standard than tRump does.

[hlthe2b]

58. Oh, please. I never claimed to be Canadian. People saw how open I was with locals and assumed

Yes, I did not correct them. Still, that would please me if the situation were reversed.

FYI: I worked for several years in Canada, too, and likewise was frequently assumed to be "native-born."

I'm horrified and ashamed of the US right now, as I have been from time to time in the past. That is one thing that should unite Canadians and liberal/progressive Americans right now. Let's not start a schism here, too.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

59. I wasn't replying to you.

But stealing the good name of Canada is what starts schisms; objecting to the theft is not the start. I assume you don't really want to blame the victim.

[hlthe2b]

65. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. If someone "stole the good name of Canada" to

be derisive or to besmirch the good name of Canada, I'd agree with you.

[BidenRocks]

73. Look at that jerkoff wearing a Maple Leaf.

Another rude Canadian!

No! It was an American being an ass, making Canada look bad.

Chump is a douche, Own It!

We don't get to ditch our identity just because we are now a fascist country.

I've had enough of the USA chants too.

Americans have no class or respect. (Throwing dildoes is funny?)

Prove Me Wrong!

[hlthe2b]

74. Did you even read what I wrote upstream? You are way off base or responding to the wrong person

Stop throwing accusations at me, for gawds' sake. I am the one who originally called out these creeps. READ THE GD THREAD and try to interpret who is saying what before you start that shit.

[BidenRocks]

75. Sensitive?

First you blow up at Bernardo and now at me.

None of these comments are directed at you personally.

Just the stolen identity issue.

[hlthe2b]

76. Hardly. Take a look in the mirror, bud and go scold someone else.

Your post was beyond the pale, given you couldn't even be bothered to read the subthread and took one post out of total context because you were not even willing to read the prior posts. Then you whip out an accusatory post to me as though I were one of those golfers' rude harassers. Well, take a look in that mirror.

And, Bernardo and I have known each other on DU for years and years. So, your related comment was off base there, too. Totally.

[multigraincracker]

39. I lived in Detroit for many years and took the bridge or tunnel to Windsor often.

Thought I could get away with it as I was very familiar with it.
I would vote for my state joining Canada in a minute.

I worked part time in an antique mall and had arguments with a young guy that was president of the local young republicans..He kept telling me they hate their health system up there. A very rich Canadian guy was looking around and while we were talking, and the kid was standing there, I asked him how he liked their health system. He said he loved it and would never trade for ours. Poor kid looked like he was going to cry.

[llmart]

56. As a fellow Michigander...

I'd be right there with you voting to join Canada!

[pfitz59]

40. My dad's grandma was Canadian

So I don't feel guilty bragging about that little bit of DNA

[SergeStorms]

55. I always claim Canadian citizenship....

when traveling out of the U.S.
Yes, I'm ashamed of being a U.S. citizen, but at my age no other country would have me, and I'd miss my family immensely. Leaving is not an option.
So I stay, and I fight when I can, and I try to change things from within, but right now it feels like a fruitless endeavor.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

61. Please don't be a counterfeit Canadian. . . . nt

[SergeStorms]

63. No counterfeit identification....

if that's what you mean, but when asked where I'm from I always say, "St. Catharines, Ontario,, Canada." There's no crime in that.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

64. No crime or ID papers, but it is deceitful and counterfeit to trade on someone's reputation.

Deceitful as if you said you were Kamala Harris's cousin here.

[OldBaldy1701E]

66. I wish I had something to say that would refute you.

But, alas, you are completely correct.

[Skittles]

67. I refuse to alter my behavior because of assholes

if you're a good American but hide it then we're letting those fascist assholes define us

and as far as insignia goes I don't usually sport any identifiers - I'm just a polite American, a decent human being

[hlthe2b]

70. Did you not get that I was working in the Middle East during Bush's GULF WAR when many

Muslims were pissed as hell at Americans--with reason. If they wanted to assume I was Canadian because I behaved towards Egyptians or Jordanians, or any others I encountered, unlike what they had experienced with Americans- i.e., with respect and interest in them- and that likewise increased my own personal safety, then I need no "forgiveness" for not having corrected them.

[Skittles]

71. did the asshole Americans do the same?

yeah, OK

[hlthe2b]

72. Shit on that. It was dangerous and there were few working in the region at the time

You think like a tourist. That was NOT what this was, and I resent the hell out of your comments and attitude.

[SilverDawg]

5. In other words,

The Ugly American.

[Escurumbele]

9. Yes, but unfortunately, the numbers have gone way up since the buffoon took office.

That was my thought exactly as I was watching the Ryder Cup, "The Ugly Americans", I did make sure not to watch when the buffoon was there though.

Collin Marikawa, one of the USA players, should pay attention, he called for "total chaos from the crowd", I guess he felt he could not win on his own merits, so he needed the crowd to hackle the Europeans for him to have a chance, but he did get his "chaos", including his chaotic performance as a player.

[SilverDawg]

12. At least Justin Thomas

stepped up to the nastiness and the match he participated in.

[Escurumbele]

18. Justin Thomas was very courteous during the interview, but he also excited the crowd, which is OK if the crowd

is not in that nasty, violent mode, but when they are they feel they are just getting approval, and feel they are being encouraged to continue with their bad behaviour, I feel that is how they took it from Thomas.

The USGA, in their quest to bring more people to the game, have broken ethic rules everywhere, and they have attracted crowds who do not even play golf but are there to get drunk, yell profanities, yell stupidities like "get in the hole", "mush potatoes", and other silliness that contributes to the sport loosing its ethics and all the good things they continue to try to sell, and it only happens in the USA.

If there are any golfers in DU they can attest about the behaviour that is encouraged in the "Waste Management" tournament where on hole 16, a par-3, people boo the players whose balls do not land on the green, they are drunk, and they throw beer cups, bottles, cans on the course, it is disgusting, they are very loud, they go there just to misbehave.

[rubbersole]

44. The WM hole 16 is their hook (npi). It's fun to watch, actually.

The Ryder Cup is supposed to be partisan, but not nasty, vulgar and personal. I've been playing golf and attending tournaments since '61. The game is the same - the crowds are getting ruder, louder and more disrespectful by the year. I quit going after Tiger won Bay Hill for the first time. The throng of humanity surrounding him - with some yelling "Go in the hole!" after he would hit his driver on a par 5 - made it more trouble than enjoyment. Spectators are even yelling at the Masters. Now that's a sign that the Rapture is imminent. 🤪

[Wiz Imp]

78. Justin Thomas did try to calm things down late on Saturday once things

got significantly out of hand. However, he was also one of the main culprits in provoking the crowd to begin with resulting in them behaving that way. He doesn't get special credit from me for trying to tamp down the ugliness which he helped start to begin with.

[gab13by13]

7. This is secondary, but I believe it contributed to the disgraceful atmosphere.

Krasnov, IMO, was behind the Saudis creating LIV golf. Krasnov wants LIV to merge with the PGA and eventually lead to its downfall.

Krasnov is pissed at the PGA for pulling 2 major tournaments from his golf courses after Jan. 6th., he wants retribution.

Rory McIlroy was on the players board looking into the merger and he is anti-merger, he is pro-PGA. I assume that Krasnov wants retribution against Rory for taking that stance, just my opinion.

[Escurumbele]

10. You are correct on all points.

And the thing is that because of the format that LIV has, the LIV players are getting worst, their skills seem to be diminishing.

Yesterday John Ram did poorly, he did well when playing with a partner, but the partners he had seem to carry him, DeChambu did well yesterday, and only because Fitzpatrick seemed to loose focus, or maybe became intimidated by the aggression from the crowd.

Crowds can be intimidated, I remember the World Cup final in Argentina, it was Argentina vs Netherlands. The Netherlands was then a superior team, they played one of the most beautiful Soccer styles ever seen at a World Cup, but the crowd became very aggressive, menacing, even the referee was terrified, and Argentina, who by no means had a great team as well, won. I guess the USGA and the USA players were hoping the crowd would sway the results in their favour by way of intimidation. It is very sad, indeed.

[bluestarone]

41. 100% perfect reply!

AGREE!!!

[NewEnglandAutumn]

8. Very True

We are a dead nation

[Escurumbele]

13. No, we are not! Dead do not come back to life, the USA will bounce back from this nightmare, even MAGAts are starting

to wake up, and because things will get worst before they get better? They will almost completely wake up. Of course there will be a few who will never wake up, they are numb, can't think for themselves, and have become worst than zombies, but the great majority will, and things will be restored, it will take time, but things WILL be restored. Lets vote these criminals out of office.

[Abstractartist]

20. Agree totally

I agree totally. We are not dead, we weren’t dead before, during and after the revolutionary war, before and after the civil war, WWI, WWII, Korean conflict, Vietnam, the major assassinations, depressions, recessions, sell offs and buyouts. We held up and against the KKK, the 9/11 attacks and attackers. We showed the world who were are and we will show them again. Our leaders are seeing what they and the rest of us need to see, and do.

2026 is not the start, but now is when we need to start the change. Get involved with local politics. Volunteer at voting polls….. one of the best ways to witness wrongdoing with elections. Help your elderly neighbors get out and vote, or help get them registered if they are not.This country is not dead, just being a turtle on its back, but me like others would roll that turtle over and point him it the correct direction…. I’m hoping he walks left.

[ananda]

23. Not only that, but I think humans are changing...

into a new species... maybe something like

homo reptiliens

[2na fisherman]

49. Devolution

Are we not men? We are DEVO!

[ananda]

54. Plus one!

It really does look that way sometimes.

[EYESORE 9001]

16. I hate giving props to a writer who took a hard right

but he does make a salient point.

[ms liberty]

34. Yea, my feelings as well. I have a love/hate relationship with his work

Some of his writing is magnificent, and some of it was schlock , and sometimes it was both in the same book.
He was dead on point here.

[ananda]

21. Trump is a good symbol of that.

Just about all Republicans now also.

[Amaryllis]

25. Source Please? He has written a lot of stuff. What is this from?

Last edited Mon Sep 29, 2025, 10:55 AM - Edit history (1)

[Jim__]

52. Here:

https://archive.org/details/friday0000hein/page/242/mode/2up?q=%22culture+invariably%22

In case the link fails, it's from "Friday" page 242.

[Amaryllis]

57. Thank you!

[twodogsbarking]

27. Assholes. Loser assholes.

[Buckeyeblue]

28. And these people were generally white upper middle class males

But in fairness, it gets pretty rough in Europe as well. The difference is that the Europeans tend to hold their booze a little better. For the fans, the ryder cup is a drunk fest. You're there all day. On Friday and Saturday there are only 8 matches each day. It's really not as exciting as the TV tries to make it.

[harumph]

37. Piss poor watered down beer and they still lose their shit.

It's like that scene from Freaks and Geeks where unbeknownst to the party goers, they're drinking non-alcoholic beer and the kids somehow still "affect" drunkenness and stupidity. In vino veritas.

[moniss]

29. So very perceptive and so very true. nt

[Henry203]

36. I attended college in Farmingdale

This part of Long Island is on the border of Nassau and Suffolk county.
Suffolk County is republican and these people are assholes. Lee Zeldin is from here and we all know what kind of an asshole he is.

[Renew Deal]

38. Seems hypocritical by the people known for racists chants,

violence in and around stadiums, and throwing things at opposing players. Europeans are hardly innocent when it comes to horrible sports fan behavior.

[TexLaProgressive]

42. Quote is from Heilein" novel "Friday"

A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot.

Snip:

Heinlein noted something in this book that is indeed prescient. Nations decline when people stop identifying themselves as nations of the nation and with small identity groups instead, be it religious, linguistic or ethnic. Hello, identity politics a la social justice.

This book is also notable for featuring a transgender character and readily available sex changes, whether for personal desires or on a whim – in California. Gender neutral bathrooms vigorously enforced are also featured in one chapter of this book. That was considered insane in the early 1980s but is currently an issue in 2010s America.

https://www.libertyislandmag.com/2019/07/12/sci-fi-book-review-friday-by-robert-heinlein/

Robert Heilein is a complex man. I expect he has critics across the entire political spectrum.

[byronius]

47. I and my friends grew up on Robert.

A weirdo extraordinaire, he was a complex thinker and a very powerful force for many young writers and artists.

He is often accused of being a conservative, but I credit him with my liberal nature. I read every word he ever wrote multiple times, and still love him. He had a militaristic origin but was deeply influenced by the hippie ethos, and his best works were written in that style.

[TexLaProgressive]

50. I am like you, Robert is responsible for my progressive views.

I credit him with my being a feminist. Of course it helps that my Mom was a mathematician/scientific programer. I mean with a woman like that in your life how could you not know that women are the intellectual equals sometimes surpassing us men.

Oh, she had stacks and stacks of SciFI books and magazines collected from her youth.

In this current time of political danger I am reminded of “Revolt in 2100.” One of the weapons used by the liberators was an artful use of the media. They would write articles that were flattering to the regime on the surface but made care use of words and phases that had a negative index.

I too have read everything Heinlein wrote.

[Turbineguy]

43. Yesterday we went to a children's birthday party nearby

and the neighbors had a US flag under which was a flag that appeared to be a trump flag. Without wind the flag just hung there. The flag might say "Fuck Trump". I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Finally some wind revealed the whole flag. "Trump 2024" and in smaller letters below, "No more bullshit".

Well, now we know. Apparently they don't listen to anything trump says.

[Scalded Nun]

48. They cannot help exposing themselves for who/what they are. Human Garbage

[homegirl]

53. Lest We Forget...

Let's make one thing perfectly f***ing clear

About the Ryder Cup, PGA, LIV and Saudi conundrum.

15, f***ing 15, of the 19 hijackers on 911 were Saudis.

For any f***ing MAGAts on this board, let that f***king sink in, you f***king shitebags.

[SunSeeker]

68. Someone threw a beer at Rory McIlroy's wife. WTF America?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/sep/29/rory-mcilroy-condemns-unacceptable-ryder-cup-abuse-and-reveals-his-wife-was-hit-by-a-beer

[JoetheShow]

69. When I first read this in Friday, 40 years ago, I dismissed it as another example of Heinlein waxing philosophical.

Now I am living through a dying culture where anger and bitterness are encouraged. Basic decency is reviled as "Woke". Atrocities (mass shootings) occur almost daily. I've changed my mind. Seeing this discussion, I was reminded of Voltaire's quote: "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." There's a downward slanted line connecting a vibrant, decent culture through loss of courtesy, to the active hatred and atrocities of a dying culture. I hereby apologize to RAH. I was wrong, and you were right... in this case.