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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat should our border/migrant stance be?
Having monetary problems at the moment, so I can't create a poll. What are your views on this, and what should Biden's stance be? More border patrol? Path to citizenship? Wall? Open borders? Something else?
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ret5hd
(21,917 posts)i think there can be only one answer.
https://sojo.net/22-bible-verses-welcoming-immigrants
Polybius
(21,061 posts)
ret5hd
(21,917 posts)of those verses.
Personally, i am an atheist.
But i am pretty strongly pro-new-testament in a lot of my views.
you know, all that squishy love-thy-neighbor, feed the hungry stuff…all the parts most all xtians tend to ignore.
Polybius
(21,061 posts)I'm a Catholic, and I want to close the border.
ret5hd
(21,917 posts)If you have the time, I would appreciate your thoughts on this video. It is on the subject of ethics and philosophy, and takes the stance that we are ALL evil and unethical. Not from a "sin/original sin/stole a candy bar" sense...but from a deep truly selfish sense...that we (yeah you, me, your family, my family) would do little more than spit on a dying man if it meant any more than the SLIGHTEST inconvenience.
After watching this, I have to agree. I would venture there aren't more than a handful of truly ethical people out of the 7+ billion of us on the planet.
And thus, we are in the situations we are in.
Polybius
(21,061 posts)He's comparing apples to oranges. Getting your clothes muddy to save a drowning child is a super-minor inconvenience. It's not the same as buying luxuries that we really don't need, like new clothes or a nice video game every now and then, rather than donate the money to the poor. The reason many of us don't get depressed is because we treat ourselves sometimes.
ret5hd
(21,917 posts)Polybius
(21,061 posts)There's no guarantee that $5 that you would have spent on the latte will even go to the charity you're donating to, much less save a life. How would $5 save a life?
Secondly, latte's, video games, Netflix subscriptions, Internet, etc. is a massive suicide prevention. Take away all of it and we'd go crazy.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)…and arguably anything of your could be seen as unnecessary or overly opulent.
Case in point: the computer or smart phone you used to ask this question.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Or verses from the Quran or Torah or any other religious faith.
ret5hd
(21,917 posts)is how do you rule yourself?
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Enacted by Congress or state legislators.
John Shaft
(808 posts)Are you saying you have no personal ethical or moral code?
former9thward
(33,424 posts)We are a nation of laws, not 330 million ethical and moral codes. I am not an anarchist. Are you?
John Shaft
(808 posts)are you a conservative?
former9thward
(33,424 posts)So, we seem to have discovered your viewpoint. Thanks.
John Shaft
(808 posts)You're acting in bad faith.
Bye now.
Prairie Gates
(6,639 posts)
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Policy. And we offer paths to citizenship for those who follow the proper channels. People complain that Abbott sends migrants to Illinois and New York because it is a burden on Illinois and New York, but want Texas or Arizona or California to welcome those same individuals with open arms. A whole lot of hypocrisy.
ret5hd
(21,917 posts)in practical terms…”the proper channels” for a poor rural uneducated but healthy and strong-backed south american, central american, or mexican citizen.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Do you propose open borders? It seems like you either have open borders or immigration consistent with legal requirements.
ret5hd
(21,917 posts)is there really is no path for those i mentioned.
Igel
(37,181 posts)They have a path, but part of it is showing that they wouldn't constitute a burden on the public. Most don't apply because our democracy placed limits on the number of immigrants it wanted per year and the countries they'd come from--and the numbers our democracy set is far lower than one months' "encounters" on the southern border, not including the border-crosses that aren't encountered. But a lot of people want to overrule the democracy--including more than a couple of high-ranking government officials in pretty much every administration.
So there's no path for the majority of those that want to enter. BAMN.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)John Shaft
(808 posts)No evidence of disease? Americanize your foreign name?
Check.
You're in.
Calculating
(3,000 posts)Lots of competition for housing and the roadways are flooded with cars. I think we have like 340m people now or something, and it doesn't seem like we need any more. If these people are willing to go through a legal process, learn our language and they come at a sustainable rate where we can assimilate them it's fine. Having thousands of unvetted people per day streaming in is bad.
ret5hd
(21,917 posts)former9thward
(33,424 posts)Which is why Mary and Joseph had to sleep with the cows.
Igel
(37,181 posts)No, there wasn't room at the inn. It's like going to get a hotel room without reservations near the stadium the night before the superbowl. The place was packed. Full up.
Then again, Joseph and Mary had homes to go back to when the feast was over--and went back to them.
Tanuki
(16,149 posts)And they didn't go home, but became refugees in Egypt to escape King Herod's genocidal slaughter of male Jewish babies. After Herod’s death, they were still afraid to go back to Judea, and resettled in the town of Nazareth in Galilee.
Elessar Zappa
(16,381 posts)We have many jobs open (something like 10 million) that can’t be filled because we’re currently at very close to full employment. Migrants could help ease the crises in healthcare, skilled manual labor, and many other sectors. And the US is actually not crowded at all, we’re considered a low population density country. 10 million more people won’t change that.
Polybius
(21,061 posts)I'd like a population of 50 million again, not anything near what we have now.
Elessar Zappa
(16,381 posts)in practical terms, it would be a disaster. It would mean that most of our population would be elderly. Who would form the tax base to fund public services? Who would take care of all the elderly? Countries with low birth rates and low immigration rates like Japan are starting to go through this now.
Rstrstx
(1,613 posts)And yes, our declining birth rate here is going to require that we have a pretty robust immigrant flow in the coming decades.
ClimateHawk
(360 posts)Response to Polybius (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
ok_cpu
(2,219 posts)to spend Christmas making posts like this. I hope you find peace this season.
dalton99a
(90,950 posts)The Persistence of the Venezuelan Migrant and Refugee Crisis
Commentary by Betilde Muñoz-Pogossian and Alexandra Winkler
Published November 27, 2023
The outflow of refugees and migrants from Venezuela is the largest displacement crisis in the world, with almost 7.7 million migrants and refugees as of August 2023. This is an even greater number than the displacement of Syrians or Ukrainians outside of their countries. Despite these numbers, the Venezuelan migrant and refugee crisis, quite unfortunately, has climbed down the list of political and policy priorities, with fewer headlines in the media and sporadic policy conversations in Washington.
On one hand, there is a sense that this is the new normal for the region and that host countries in Latin America and the Caribbean will have to continue to manage the influx of 6.4 million Venezuelans and counting as best as they can. On the other hand, it seems that neighboring countries across the region are willing to continue discussions on how best to address migration and forced displacement, but by removing the Venezuelan political focus from the center of the migrant and refugee discussion. The truth is, however, that this is a crisis that persists, and is likely to continue as long as the root causes are not addressed.
Despite these efforts, the reality is that the region is still recovering from Covid-19 setbacks. Venezuelan migrants are now leaving countries like Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, and Chile, where they had originally migrated, due to low salaries, inflation, and lack of jobs, and are making the dangerous trek to reach the U.S. border. To understand the scale of these flows, going by the number of Venezuelans crossing the Darién Gap, the remote stretch of rainforest located between Colombia and Panama, a record 400,000 migrants have crossed during the first nine months of this year, according to Panamanian officials, and Venezuelans account for an estimated 60 percent of those, namely around 240,000, the most of any nationality. In search of the American dream, record numbers of migrants have also reached the U.S.-Mexico border, with 262,633 Venezuelans having crossed just in 2023, up from 189,520 in 2022.
The root causes that generated this unprecedented flow of migrants and refugees, including democratic breakdown, repression, and a lack of basic human rights, remain unchanged in Venezuela. There is also a deep economic crisis driven by devastating policies and a kleptocracy that has characterized the political landscape during the last 20 years. There are also challenges for Venezuelans in receiving countries, such as limited access to legal documentation, basic services, economic opportunities, and rising xenophobia. In addition, with the sometimes tumultuous changes in governments in Latin America, Venezuelans prefer to leave receiving countries than to go through another national crisis. All these elements will remain throughout 2023, and therefore migration flows should be expected to continue, and even increase in 2024.
...
NickB79
(20,141 posts)We need thousands of extra immigration judges.
We need to speed up the process so that an immigrant can see a judge and either be approved or rejected for legal status in a few months, not years. And a streamlined process to get full citizenship in a couple of years, not a decade.
We need to apply that to current illegal immigrants in the US as well, with a guarantee of no penalty for coming here illegally if you apply. Basically Reagan's amnesty program for the 21st century.
On the flip side, we can't do this without more control of the border, which means we likely need thousands of additional border agents on patrol, as well as a drone network to supplement "boots on the ground". That may not be super popular, as it resembles militarizing the US border
We also need foreign policies that promote stability and climate resilience in Central and South America, because that could encourage people to stay in their home nations instead.
Emile
(38,715 posts)is, other than sitting on their hemorrhoidal asses and pointing their shit stained fingers.
Polybius
(21,061 posts)Oh yeah, more border guards too.
Emile
(38,715 posts)going to govern?
Polybius
(21,061 posts)Hopefully the Senate addresses it.
Emile
(38,715 posts)are they going to do next besides sitting on their ass and pointing their fingers?
Polybius
(21,061 posts)They passed a bill, and the Senate didn't vote on it. They are currently on vacation till next week. Both sides need to negotiate a compromise, but with very little compromise on the immigration part of the bill that passed the House.
Emile
(38,715 posts)Polybius
(21,061 posts)Hopefully, they pass the bill in early 2024.
Emile
(38,715 posts)tactic. Why are you so hopeful the Republican bill be passed?
Polybius
(21,061 posts)I want it passed badly, plus if Biden signs a hardline immigration bill into law, they can't use it as a wedge issue against us in 2024.
Emile
(38,715 posts)proves the Republicans are not interested in losing their wedge issue and getting a bill passed. Their only agenda is to point their finger and blame.
Mad_Machine76
(24,908 posts)Could hurt us in the youth vote
Polybius
(21,061 posts)We have to do what must be done. Plus, whatever votes we lose with the far-left we will gain times two with independents.
ripcord
(5,553 posts)Emile
(38,715 posts)ripcord
(5,553 posts)Emile
(38,715 posts)They are the ones to point your finger at and they also control the purse strings.
EllieBC
(3,591 posts)“If XYZ is elected I’m moving to Canada!”
No you aren’t, buttercup. Not if you are over a certain age, in poor health, have zero support, or are poor. And not a real refugee.
Why do Americans think they can just wander into any country and be welcomed?
Most countries with a large social welfare system do have stricter controls on immigration.
So figure out what you want. Do you want to have lots of super cheap labour? Do you want to have a system in place that makes sure you aren’t taking on more than you can handle?
The Contrarian
(87 posts)This is a huge country that is largely unpopulated. Its a cliche, but we are a country of immigrants. Virtually every American has an immigrant background. Let them come. We will make room, and we will make a future for them.
MichMan
(16,181 posts)We currently have 2.5 million a year now. What about 5 million, 10 million, or 20 million a year?
We already have a shortage of affordable housing now. Where are all those people expected to live?
Kashkakat v.2.0
(1,940 posts)Ok, maybe not ANY policy - of course humane and practiced with utmost respect for migrants and their well being. But there does need to be some sort of gate keeping function .
Its long baffled me why there hasnt been bi- partisan consensus on establishing work visas to both help alleviate labor shortages and the families of those who come here to work. If its the road to citizenship that is contentious then leave that for now, just establish the protocol for coming here to work.... and then we work to further define what further refinements to immigration law there should be.
Along with that - come down hard on illegal EMPLOYERS. IE ones who hire people without work permits and thereby are able to disregard workplace safety provisions and other labor laws and all the other ways they are able to screw over the workers. Throw THEM in the slammer and separate THEM from THEIR families! See how they like it!
MichMan
(16,181 posts)I imagine that once people that don't have work permits find out they are virtually unemployable, they will likely return to their country of origin, and those planning to come will go through the legal process of applying for a work permit.
That would apply to both more recent arrivals as well as some that have been here undocumented for years, and maybe decades, once their employers no longer want to take the risk.
jmbar2
(7,412 posts)The US does need immigrants to fill jobs not attractive to Americans, like working in meat packing plants and farm work. These are horrible, low-paid jobs, but if they give an immigrant a first step on the ladder to citizenship, it's a win-win.
Prior labor immigrant waves were generally working age adults who filled labor needs, sent money to families back home, or saved to be able to afford to bring them to the US later. It didn't make sense to try to come with their whole families, or to come en masse. We do not have adequate affordable housing, schools, teachers, healthcare, to meet the needs of millions of new families trying to join the US. We can't take care of our own.
There's one other issue that is not being discussed. Our geopolitical enemies have long sought to use migrant surges to destabilize western democracies. Russia helped decimate Syria, triggering an immigration crisis in Germany. Russia is trying to trigger immigrant surges into Finland, and may well be providing disinformation to immigrants about coming to America.
Some one, or some entities are telling millions of Venezuelans that if they show up at America's front door with their whole families, that they will receive free education, healthcare. childcare, food and housing. There is no country in the world where this is realistic.
Who is telling them that America is going to take care of them and their families? Probably the same people charging them to come here. We need to figure that part out and put a stop to it.
brush
(61,033 posts)one is that living conditions are not good for millions in countries south of our border so of course people come here for a better life. Another reason is that though many pols, mostly republicans, complain endlessly, they don't really come up with viable, permanent plans because immigrant labor is needed in agriculture, construction and other sectors so the constant complaining is somewhat of a pantomime and a cudgel to wield against Democrats to help win elections.
How long has the problem existed? For how many decades, many, and many, like I said, don't really want it to get solved as it's too useful a political tool to highlight the visual of mile-long parades of immigrant hordes invading out southern border. Why it's political gold to rile up the maga hordes opposing the immigrant hordes. The hordes kinda balance each other out as one hord approached from the south to pick our fruits and vegetables that the low-info, maga hordes already eat daily but have no idea how that food gets on their table.
So the situation never gets resolved because pols on the right don't really want it resolved.
Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)Globalization driven by US economic hegemony has wrecked the economies of our southern neighbors. We are also starting to see climate related mass migration, and that is just going to get worse. We are all one people living on one planet. We need to, as the saying goes, 'think globally and act locally'.
EX500rider
(12,082 posts)In general globalization has helped more then hurt 3erd world countries.
Globalization deserves some credit for enabling once desperately poor countries to grow more rapidly and thereby reduce poverty. World poverty has declined significantly over the past 40 years. According to the World Bank, the share of the world's population in extreme poverty has fallen from 42 percent in 1981 to just 8.6 percent in 2018
https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economic-issues-watch/globalization-enabled-nearly-all-countries-grow-richer-recent
ecstatic
(34,964 posts)Their task would be to come up with real solutions for the people who are already in this country and living and working as undocumented, and the people who are currently at the border or headed towards the border.
I think public outreach within the countries that people are coming from is important. Educate the public in those countries on the procedure for legally immigrating into the US and other countries (in the absence of a true emergency/ humanitarian crisis). Walking with hundreds of other people for thousands of miles is not safe and it would be a waste of time. Don't do it.
Review and revise our refugee protocols. Look into how the US can address humanitarian crises in various countries that are leading to large numbers of people fleeing. Hell, that might need to be its own task force of people whose only job is to follow what's going on in those countries and get ahead of mass exodus events.
In my opinion, if we close our borders we'll end up like the other countries where there won't be enough people to support the elderly in a few decades. So having new people will be a good thing, especially people who are still interested in having kids.
I'm not advocating for open borders, but I am advocating for a fast and orderly process at our border that will make it easier to process large numbers of people to quickly determine in a fair manner who stays and who goes.
There are some States and private industries where workers are desperately needed. That's where the private sector could potentially play a role. Vetted companies (large and small) submit their programs ahead of time and sponsor immigrants for various jobs around the United States, especially in low population States. Companies wishing to take part would pay a progressive tax which would pay for border administration employees who connect eligible workers to employers. Employers then arrange for transportation and housing. Workers can bring their families after 5 years.
Again, there would have to be a lot of government oversight to make sure that the situation doesn't spiral into indentured servitude or some other craziness. Immigrants would need to be told their rights ahead of time and have contact information for who they can call for help if their employer doesn't follow the rules.
RubyRose
(311 posts)Problems. The problem needs to be fixed at the source.
Mad_Machine76
(24,908 posts)Some of these countries’ political problems are ones we helped create.
bluestarone
(20,632 posts)1) WHO is getting these people to come? (that's first step) Are they doing this to destroy our country, or actually help people?) Then go to #2) The main issue should be handled on the Mexican side of the border, WITH American impute. (not sure how that could be worked out) Then 3) Each and every state needs to set times that they WILL accept certain numbers? It IS all of our problems, so WE have to agree to the numbers, plain and simple! 4) Get the fucking back stabbing politics out of this whole problem. The southern states ARE feeling this more than others, BUT i believe it's because the people in charge there are very un-American and don't give a shit about what people go through. Lot's more, BUT THIS could be a good start.
limbicnuminousity
(1,413 posts)A purely empathetic policy would be to simply open all borders. It would be more appropriate, I think, to balance empathy with pragmatism and sound reason.
There are terrorists seeking entry to the country. News reports remind us of this fact with some frequency. News agencies report about the FBI reports capturing terrorists frequently for us to remember that danger. Some kind of screening and vetting process needs to be put in place before expanding immigration policy. ICE shouldn't be part of the process, imo, because the mission statement of the agency somehow still enables them to separate families. Separating children from their family is, hopefully, something most people can condemn.
The pragmatic reality is the country doesn't have adequate housing to meet the needs of a population influx. It would ruffle feathers, but the responsible thing to do might be to risk a bit of social engineering by requiring the companies buying up single family apartments to merge around 20-30% of the units into multi-family units , thereby enabling the discrete families to pool their resources to pay for rent, food, utilities, local school taxes, etc. That might create an avenue for expanding immigration without over-taxing the existing citizenry.
Few people, if any, will relish that idea. But, the undeniable truth is climate change isn't going away. And America contributes more than any other country to the effects of climate change. We have to accept responsibility at some point. Passing the buck only works for so long.
RandomNumbers
(18,964 posts)to those TRULY high-skilled.
Improve turnaround time on humanitarian immigration applications.
Continue to work on discouraging immigration except through designated ports of entry. Not sure what to do with the vast throngs showing up at those entry points? Ideally our policies would support other countries having conditions that wouldn't cause so many people to want to escape their homes. But what do we do NOW? That is the big question. I don't support open borders but I do support humane responses. Just it's hard to know what those are sometimes.
One thing we need to do is help people in other countries voluntarily control their reproduction. Too bad we are quickly sliding backward on that here.
Johonny
(24,955 posts)The US has traditionally ignored problems in our own backyard. It feels like a long time ago the US did anything to help the countries in Central America. And even when we helped, it wasn’t helpful.
Freethinker65
(11,201 posts)Not everyone coming over the border qualifies for asylum. Those not granted asylum should be given information on how to apply legally by other means.
Path to citizenship for those brought over as children that have grown up and been educated in the United States and know no other country.
MichMan
(16,181 posts)Coming here because they can make more money is not grounds for asylum, yet most migrants know the system is so overwhelmed that if they just say the word, they get to stay.
Seems cruel to let people claim asylum, when we already know a significant number are not eligible, and give them a hearing date years in the future. In the meantime, they are establishing their lives and becoming acclimated. Then when they are eventually denied asylum, they are legally expected to go back to their home countries. I wonder how many just disappear.
dalton99a
(90,950 posts)Prairie Gates
(6,639 posts)Asylum was to be reserved for the very rarest cases of direct threat to a person or group by a government entity in their home country. Now, anybody shows up seeking asylum because life is hard in some other country. No shit. It's hard here too. But this is never what asylum was supposed to be for.
Just showing up and claiming asylum makes a mockery of people who actually do need asylum. We should be more pissed off about this attempted end run around our immigration laws.
enid602
(9,575 posts)The majority of our undocumented immigrants are from Venezuela. We should abstain from speaking ill of them until our government withdraws the sanctions that caused them to leave their homeland.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)And dictatorships. Do we just ignore those values?
enid602
(9,575 posts)We foreclosed on the two refineries owned by PDVSA in Louisiana on a technicality so they can’t refine their high sulphur crude. Trump told the presidents of Brazil and Argentina that they can only do business with the US if they don’t do business with Venezuela. Biden is doing his best to normalize trade relations, but the Republicans are making it hard. Almost every country in Latin America have problems with Venezuelan immigrants, and blame the US’s harsh sanctions. How can we complain about their presence in our country when we encourage the economic demise of their own?
gulliver
(13,596 posts)Increase asylum seeker processing speed and efficiency. Invest in Mexico, Central, and South America, so the people don't want to emigrate (and we can even move there safely if we want to).
Or build a wall and have it be a monument to stupidity.
MichMan
(16,181 posts)How would we ensure that the investment actually helps the people instead of just being stolen by the government and cartels?
Arthur_Frain
(2,252 posts)Fix it, and how many come over to our side? It needs to be addressed. Let’s apply our best minds to the problem.
spooky3
(38,057 posts)the Republicans propose and that passes both houses."
IbogaProject
(5,294 posts)This inland parole thing is causing major havoc in big cites. I say either have a visa up front or sit in a work camp for 6-18 months while the asylum process happens. They should work for their keep during that time, no splitting families up so that needs to be worked out too. I'm in favor of immigration, but it needs to be structured and letting folks loose on "parole" with no ability to legally work isn't a solution.
Silent Type
(11,716 posts)Unfortunately, we’ll likely get forced into draconian actions as election approaches.
I just hope people who been here and contributed as “citizens” don’t get deported should the MFer slip in again.
pfitz59
(12,015 posts)either path requires funds. either for border walls and armed guards, or jobs and housing. Congress refuses to act. They won't even debate the pros and cons. My personal view is 'let them in'. The US is a big country, with lots of empty space. We took land from the natives and opened it to homesteading, why not do the same with these huge ranches and farms? 'the state' could also take empty land and buildings in the city and create housing. with our nation's size, ecology and resources we could support billions of people. the country wouldn't look the same, but we could do it.
meadowlander
(5,018 posts)then the solutions need to speak to that.
So I'd suggest:
- take the money we were going to waste on a border wall and spend it on foreign aid, overseas economic development and diplomacy so people can stay and thrive in their own homes like most of them probably would prefer to
- accept legitimate asylum seekers and refugees, treat them with dignity while their case is processed expeditiously, and give them a pathway to citizenship
- invest more in education and training for US citizens so that US workers are more competitive and create incentives for growth of new economy jobs
- crack down on employers paying exploitation wages to immigrants or work visa holders instead of hiring US citizens. Require pay transparency so it's easier to document employers doing this. Crack down on employers hiring undocumented workers and shirking on paying taxes.
- anyone born in the US is a US citizen. Anyone transported to the US as a minor who is attending college or doing military service, etc has a pathway to citizenship. Parents of a US citizen who are not US citizens can stay and work in the US until their children are no longer minors and in the meantime can try to gain citizenship via other criteria (employment, etc.)
- provide work visas for jobs that Americans don't want to do but only if the employer can show that they couldn't hire anyone when they offered a living wage
- anyone who earns a masters or PhD at a US university can stay and work for two years. If they can find full time employment, they can get a green card
- have an essential skills list and offer a priority pathway to citizenship for migrants with the education/experience to do those jobs
- immediate family of citizens have a pathway to citizenship
- a category for significant investors (e.g. you invest at least $5 million in a business that will employee at least 40 people) and people with outstanding skills in their fields like writers, professional athletes, and artists who earn enough to prove they are self-supporting
- everyone else goes on a lottery/quota system which is blind to country of origin and other circumstances but with quotas pegged to demand/economic growth.
If you're otherwise here illegally, tough luck, you get deported.
NowsTheTime
(1,219 posts)...this may seem like an odd opinion, but we need everything going in our favor or at least attempt to neutralize opinions against us.
This is because right now saving Democracy is number one issue.
We can't sit back and say we have a bill that Dem's have proposed. We need to bring it to light and start talking about solutions.
This is an issue that Republicans can use against us, we need to take the wind out of their sails!
I'll leave it to others to decide possible solutions.
Emile
(38,715 posts)
JCMach1
(29,031 posts)The fixes for the immigration issues are a bipartisan clusterfrak.
The solutions would be hated by left and right and would be pretty damn costly.
Hence, we are where we are...
Emile
(38,715 posts)game and start blaming them.
pinkstarburst
(1,814 posts)I think we do need more border wall / barriers for the simple reason that we need to be able to control how many people we want to let in at a time. Right now we are letting in more people than we can support. This strain is being felt and the frustration is being expressed by both democrats and republicans. Mexico is doing nothing to stop the flow of migrants. If suddenly their failure to act meant they had millions more refugees every year I think they would suddenly find they had a lot more motivation on their end.
We need a national system of temporary work permits for specific job categories that they are authorized for as soon as we allow them in. These should be the jobs we are unable to fill, not the jobs Americans want. Farming, dairy work, meatpacking plants, factory work, nursing homes that are unable to staff positions, janitorial positions at schools, food service positions in schools. These positions are going unfilled across the country. Instead of providing hotel rooms and indefinite shelter, we need to provide immediate work permits, up to date information about what factories and dairies are hiring, and the the federal government should be bussing refugees to those areas as soon as they cross the border. Leave them to figure out shelter, just like the undocumented people who cross illegally manage to figure out how to work under the table and figure out their own shelter. I think part of the problem is that the perception now is everyone gets their own hotel room, and the reality is we have completely effed up the work permits process and even when some are eligible, they aren't applying because it's too confusing at that point. The federal government needs to have that streamlined so that you get your work permit handed to you along with your other paperwork as soon as you cross and are granted permission to stay. Then bus them to where labor is needed.
We need to take the money we're spending on hotel rooms and spend it on more judges and more funding to speed up the asylum hearing process. Most of these cases will not be approved. We need to find a way to get most of these hearings through the court system faster.
hunter
(40,116 posts)They have a friendly open border somewhere on the isthmus of Panama. That border is not the Panama canal. The canal is mostly gone. Only bits and pieces of it remain, in ruins.
The words "America" and "American" are not used in polite company.
It's a Star Trek like world but without any "first contact" or aliens. There's a world government of sorts, but people of our time would have difficulty recognizing it as such. Nobody is hungry or homeless, there's universal health care, and most people simply don't have to work much unless they choose to. It's nearly impossible to be very wealthy or very poor. Most people don't pay attention to money at all.
Government still exists, mostly as a bureaucratic automation. What politicians remain spend most of their time arguing rancorously with other politicians about insignificant things and to little effect. They are mostly harmless.
Okay, back to the question.
I live in a place that used to be part of Mexico. Long before then it belonged to people who came to this continent many thousands of years ago. My father-in-law is about half native American. His American ancestors lived along the modern Mexico - U.S.A. border. In the nineteenth century they fled south to escape genocide and persecution by the U.S.A.. They returned in the twentieth century as Mexican farm laborers. My wife's dad was born in a migrant labor camp near a small orchard my parents once owned.
My Wild West ancestors claimed no animosity towards the Indians. Indeed, they'd express their good Christian concern for their well being and they romanticized Indian culture. Nevertheless, my grandfather lost his shit when my wife and I announced our intention to marry. In his family men simply didn't marry Indians or, in his own words, "Mexican girls." (Apparently it was okay to date them...) He boycotted or wedding. To his credit, he got over it.
My grandma loved her "Latin" neighbors and she spoke Spanish. (Sadly, she'd passed away before I met my wife.) My grandma wasn't an angel. She had nothing nice to say about the "Okies" and "white trash" who had inundated California during the Great Depression, seemingly expecting people like her affluent family to fire all their experienced and hard working "colored" and immigrant employees and hire them just because they were white and "real" U.S. Americans.
Many descendants of Dust Bowl refugees who settled in California are still nursing resentments about the reception they got.
There's a huge shit storm coming as global warming forces people to abandon their homes.
How we treat immigrants displaced from other nations is going to be reflected in how we treat our own displaced citizens. I don't expect "Florida Man" is going to receive a warm welcome in places less affected by global warming.
What goes around comes around.
bluestarone
(20,632 posts)Good thread here!