Belgium's prime minister Alexander De Croo has said that "what is happening in Gaza today is no longer proportionate".

[Donkees]

Lisa O'Carroll

If one bombs an entire refugee camp with the intention of eliminating one terrorist, then I don’t think that is proportionate anymore.

Something like that is a bridge too far.

De Croo added it was “completely logical” that “a solution” is sought for Hamas but “the question is how the solution should be found” during political dialogue, a pause in the fighting and the release of all hostages.

Several Belgian media reported him as saying:

Our country does not take sides. What we do choose is an end to violence and thousands of civilian victims.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/06/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-jordan-airdrops-medical-supplies-gaza-blinken-turkey-push-contain-conflict

[madville]

1. Proportionate response doesn't accomplish anything

Wars are won by crushing infrastructure, attrition and breaking the will of the enemy with disproportionate response. Israel should not stop until they have swept Gaza clear of Hamas, every hostage recovered, every rocket launcher destroyed and every tunnel and bunker cleared and caved in. There's only one way this will ever end and that's with one side or the other destroyed, anything else is just stalling and waiting until the next attack.

[bluesbassman]

2. Ah yes, the Conan The Barbarian ethos.

“To crush your enemies and see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women and children”.

Sound about right?

[madville]

4. Correct, that's why wars are no longer won

They are just played until one or both sides get tired and and go home. That's why there is no viable permanent solution to this present situation, as long as Jews are in Israel there will be Islamic forces trying to destroy them. There will never be negotiated peace there and any concession from Israel will never be enough.

[bluesbassman]

6. So the only way to "win" this war is to "sweep Gaza clear of any Hamas". Sounds like scorched earth to me.

That may temporarily rid Israel of the current threat, but as a long term solution recent history has shown that a policy like that will just breed new and possibly exponential amounts of terrorists.

[madville]

9. There is another solution, albeit unlikely

The Palestinian people in Gaza could stop tolerating Hamas operating out of there. Get U.N. forces in there, have legitimate elections and if the Palestinians elect anti-Hamas leaders, work with the rest of the world and Israel to eliminate any remnants of Hamas in Gaza. If given the choice, do you think the people of Gaza would elect pro or anti Hamas political leaders?

Israel is going to be under attack as long as there are Islamic extremists, there's no end to that regardless of what they do. They don't have to tolerate it right next door and coming over their border though.

[bluesbassman]

11. Well that certainly would be the logical approach.

Not quite sure how that would work in the current scenario. Israel is determined, and rightly so, to exterminate Hamas and as long as Hamas refuses to release their hostages I very much doubt Israel will soften their stance. While I suspect that the average citizen of Gaza is not too fond of Hamas at the moment, they are terrified of them and lack any substantive ability to resist Hamas. Given the opportunity I do believe they'd vote Hamas out, but without outside backing I don't think that scenario is even remotely available.

[yagotme]

17. The problem with the Palestinians and choice,

Most of them have no other experience than being under Hamas. That's all they know. And it's hard to make an informed choice on a new government without that experience. Difficulties all around.

[lapfog_1]

10. more like Shaka Zulu

Shaka : To subdue another tribe, you must strike it once and for all. Total war, total subjugation to the paramount king and total destruction to anyone who raises even a whisper against him! Never leave an enemy behind or it will rise again to fly at your throat!

[Donkees]

13. Suburban Shaka ...

[Captain Stern]

3. That's pretty much it.

A truly proportionate response by Israel would have been to intentionally kill 1300 Palestinians, and take 150 hostages. Then, wait for Hamas to strike again, and then proportionately respond again. Since there are more Israelis than folks living in Gaza, that would pretty much go on until all the Palestinians in Gaza are dead.

I think all reasonable people agree that wars suck. Personally, it's always flabbergasted me that people can sit down together, and come up with civil rules for conducting wars, but we can't stay at the table just a little longer, and figure out how not to have them in the first place.

But, until people can figure out how not to have wars, they won't be fought proportionately, and they shouldn't be.

[onecaliberal]

5. They could have just grabbed even more land and killed all the palestinians, oh wait....

[Captain Stern]

7. Oh, wait ....for what?

Only one of the 'sides' in this conflict has stated that their goal was to kill every single person on the 'other side'.

They didn't imply it. They didn't leave it up for folks to infer it. They straight up say it.

That was clearly Israel.......oh, wait, it wasn't. (spoiler alert) It was Hamas.

[malaise]

8. Duh!

That is all

[Oopsie Daisy]

12. Hiroshima and Nagasaki wasn't "proportional" either... but it certainly got their attention.

I'm not advocating the use of nuclear weapons, but it would be difficult to argue that there is zero value in disproportionate responses when dealing with terrorists.

[EllieBC]

14. Would it be preferred

if the IDF just ran in and slaughtered a bunch of families and then ate their breakfast? Maybe took 200 hostages with them?

I keep hearing that Israel should or shouldn’t do this or that.

“They should just send in Mossad to assassinate Hamas leaders.” Oh shut up. People would be crying over that too. How dare they go into another country and assassinate those men!

“They should use drones instead.” Really? Really? You think anyone is that dumb to think you’d not complain about that too?

Some people should just admit they want them to do nothing and get pushed off the map. Or that they want them to stick around and continue to be attacked but also they must provide internet for Gaza. 🙄

[onecaliberal]

16. It would be preferable not to kill children who

Were unfortunate enough to be born there.

Edit to add: in light of what we see you have that backwards. Israel wants to wipe ALL Palestinians off the map.

[yagotme]

18. Yes it would. It's even worse when children are intentionally killed.

Like Hamas did. Israeli's give warnings, tell people to leave, but they're the bad guys. Gotcha.

[totodeinhere]

15. I wonder if he would be saying that if his baby had been kidnapped

and his grandmother had been raped. This overt barbarism of the Hamas attack begs the question of proportionality. There is no proportionality when it comes to the evil of Hamas.