How will Israel know when they have beaten Hamas and secured their nation?

[Chainfire]

Are the Hamas terrorist to be eliminated to the last man regardless of civilian casualities? What does the end look like?

[NCIndie]

1. Rhetorical questions with no meaningful answers.

Meh

[Chainfire]

5. Thank you for your thoughtful reply, but I contend that it is a life and death question for the people of Palestine.

I can understand an "its not an important question" or "I don't give a shit" answer only if you think that somehow the people of Palestine do not matter as much as the people of Israel.

[NCIndie]

10. LOL! You're looking for a fight. Pass

Have a nice time begging for attention.

[FBaggins]

32. It isn't a life or death question for the people of Israel too?

That's odd.

[Celerity]

13. de rec this flippant and inaccurate reply

You apparently do not understand the definition of 'rhetorical', and if you think that a discussion on how many (the numbers will be at least in the tens of thousands) civilian deaths are acceptable is meaningless (you said no meaningful answers), well that says far more about you than the OP poster.

Welcome to DU. I guess.

[NCIndie]

14. The emotional level of these discussions has revealed much about those involved

If you think you know something about me from my comment, you must be amazingly prescient.

[Chainfire]

17. We can only know what you tell us.

[NCIndie]

21. And I told you that the OP posed a series of rhetorical questions.

Those questions have no answer. Period. Asking questions that have no answer is the essence of a rhetorical argument.

And that is what you know of me. Everything else you said was wrong. Sorry.

[Celerity]

27. Again you misuse 'rhetorical'.

There is nothing rhetorical about the questions asked by the OP.

they asked:

How will Israel know when they have beaten Hamas and secured their nation?

Are the Hamas terrorist to be eliminated to the last man regardless of civilian casualities?

What does the end look like?

Those are all valid questions, plus you said:

Those questions have no answer. Period. Asking questions that have no answer is the essence of a rhetorical argument.

Really? There is no answer for any of them?

That is a thoroughly flawed supposition. Of course there are answers to each and every one. Time will tell what they are.

[NCIndie]

28. Doubling down on your silliness. I will leave you to it.

[Celerity]

29. So now you turn to ad hominem. A telling sign of a weak argument.

[LuvLoogie]

19. What was that thing Maya Angelou said?

[NCIndie]

22. This?

“Music was my refuge. I could crawl into the space between the notes and curl my back to loneliness.”

It's a beautiful passage. Thank you for that.

[Celerity]

34. they meant this:

[NCIndie]

36. Irrelevant, but a fantastic quote from Angelou

Here is one for you:

“We only see what we want to see; we only hear what we want to hear. Our belief system is just like a mirror that only shows us what we believe.”

—-Don Miguel Ruiz

Not just you, but so many here at DU. Personal biases are the filter they use for viewing everything.

[Celerity]

37. I find it very relevant when applied for this thread, and once again you resort to ad hominem, slagging off the board

to a significant degree in an attempt to deflect.

Your own person bias was on display from the first post I responded to.

I fully admit I have a bias against sophistry, false-framing, logical fallacies, and the fundamental misuse of words.

and this:

“We only see what we want to see; we only hear what we want to hear. Our belief system is just like a mirror that only shows us what we believe.”

is not at all how I operate, or at least strive daily to not do so. I am very much against putting my head in the sand, nor do I engage in omphaloskepsis as an self-manifesting behavioural methodology. I detest normalcy bias. as well as wish fulfillment-based limitations of knowledge inputs.

[Celerity]

26. I am a native English speaker and thus can analyse your verbiage with no mind-reading needed.

Apparently you also have definitional problems with 'prescient' (on top of your previous misuse of 'rhetorical'):

you must be amazingly prescient

as I commented ex post facto, based upon what you had already typed. I did not need any foreknowledge.

[Bettie]

2. When every Palestinian in Gaza

is dead. They'll be "forced" to move on to the West Bank then, just to be sure.

And maybe find a way to eliminate each and every person with any Palestinian heritage, to be extra sure.

Of course, the leaders of Hamas will still be living in luxury in other countries.

[onecaliberal]

3. This. This is what they're clearly doing.

I believe my own eyes.

[leftstreet]

4. +1

That seems to be the plan

[David__77]

9. I think that's a very reasonable thought.

As for the US, there is major incompetence. It’s as if no one is considering what might emerge out of this.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

11. If that's the case, then why haven't they already killed a lot more people?

This kind of casual slander of genocide is appalling.

[Bettie]

16. Did you see what Netanyahu said?

His old testament quote about killing everyone? I believe him. He is certainly capable of it, look at how the right wing settlers are making big moves in the West Bank, because they know he'll support them in any action they choose to take.

We'll see, won't we?

And I'm told that it isn't genocide, it's just Israel defending itself, Netanyahu style.

I believe that different leadership would have handled things differently and none of this would be happening.

Netanyahu and his right wing hard liners have been turning up the flame (in concert with Hamas) and are now acting surprised that the pot is boiling over. None of this happened in a vacuum.

But put any sort of spin on it you want to, you will anyway.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

18. If Israel does in fact do what you claim, it will certainly be genocide.

But I'm saying that they won't. If they wanted to kill everyone, they'd be going about this in a much different way.

[Bettie]

20. Right now, they hope to get hostages back

once they either get them or find out they are dead....and Hamas is certainly capable and likely to kill them anyway, he'll go full force.

From everything I have seen and read about this man, he is 100% capable and willing to kill them all.

I hope I'm wrong...but it seems to be moving that direction.

[Ferrets are Cool]

12. You took the words outta my mouth.

[jcmaine72]

6. Details Schmetails...

That question is too nuanced. Just press the tried & true "You Are Either With Us, Or With the Terrorists" button and stop thinking so much before someone accuses you of being an anti-something or other.

[Elessar Zappa]

7. Beats me.

I would think if Hamas releases all the hostages that negotiations to end this could occur but not before that.

[Chainfire]

8. How many hostages are there? Will we know if they are all released?

To put my question into perspective, remember that 50 years after the Vietnam was has ended there are still over a thousand Americans listed as "missing."

[czarjak]

15. Has The Twelfth been mentioned?

[andym]

23. Simple answer: When Fatah could take over Gaza from Hamas

really a simple test-- they were run out of there by Hamas about 15 years ago. If they can return without being killed or expelled then Gaza would be stabilized from the Israeli POV.

[edhopper]

24. I think it would be

a nonterrorist organization that has vowed to destroyed Israel takes control of Gaza.

[milestogo]

25. When they are up to their knees in blood.

[enid602]

30. Contact

And yet, I wonder how many Gazans have actually been in contact with Israelis, or vice versa. It’s easier to hate and kill each other when you don’t know each other. Their peculiar living arrangements seem to preclude any sense of inclusion.

[FBaggins]

31. The wording of your question implies more than you realize

The simple answer is "the same way every victor in war knows they have won - the enemy surrenders"

You obviously assume that Hamas is too irrational to realize when they have been beaten and is willing to die to the last - regardless of the cost to their own people"

I hope you're wrong.

[Chainfire]

33. While generally true, a war can be also won when the enemy are all killed or displaced as well as by surrender.

I have no doubt that Israel will come out of this war with something that has the look and feel of victory. There will be speeches and parades heroes, martyrs and marble monuments to the fallen; but there will not be a lasting peace.

I believe that Hamas started this war in such a brutal manner that so that Israel would overreact. If that is so, even in surrender, even with thousands of dead, even with tens of thousands of homeless refugees, they will have scored a strategic victory, for they attained their goals. Nothing else makes any sense because Hamas knew what would happen if they brutally massacred a thousand innocent people. The leadership of Hamas may be cunning and evil, but they are not stupid.

The way that this war has been prosecuted will insure that there will be no more Arabs or Muslims anywhere that believe that there is any path to a peaceful solution to the problems in the region, and Israel will never live in peace. The bad thing is that it is not just Arabs and Muslims that believe that the war, as it is being fought, does not have the feel of justice. It is not anti-Semitism but humanism in play.

If Israel claims new territory they will never profit by it. If the far-right government of Israel think that that is victory the are deluding themselves. Israel may have done in Palestine what the Japanese did in Pearl Harbor and the "victory" may come back to haunt them.

[roamer65]

35. They won't know.

Because it will be a regional war by then.