So was the only cancer hospital in Gaza bombed today

[malaise]

Nothing justifies this…nothing.

[LexVegas]

1. Hamas barracks. nt

[DemocratInPa]

2. So that makes it ok..

[GuppyGal]

4. Actually yes it becomes a military target and that's why Hamas does it

They also do it to play the west with their sympathies...seems like it's working on some.

[DemocratInPa]

5. So in other words..

Fuck those Cancer patients?

If Israel has such an amazing Army, you think they could get it another way.

[Ocelot II]

9. I have read that there were no patients there because the hospital was out of fuel.

I don't know if that's true, though.

[NickB79]

11. Like a ground invasion and heavily armed troops seizing the hospital?

A raging firefight from ward to ward inside the hospital with machine guns and grenades? Stray rounds and shrapnel everywhere.

Because that's about the only other option, if Hamas is holed up inside, regardless of how good the Israeli military is.

[Tomconroy]

19. They've been warned for weeks now. Go south.

[Torchlight]

25. That being the case, seems to me, Hamas was the first to state "fuck those patients"

If Hamas has such bold and dynamic leadership, you think they could get it another way besides initially hiding behind the very people they are supposed to protect.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

6. Yep n/t

[sarisataka]

8. If it is no longer a hospital

And being used as a military baracks, yes.

[DemocratInPa]

10. It was still a hospital..

[LexVegas]

12. It was a military barracks. nt

[sarisataka]

15. One- are we sure

Two, if it is being used as a barracks while still being a hospital, it is a valid target

[onecaliberal]

16. In the mind of many, yes. Even on "our side"

[TexasDem69]

47. If it was a Hamas barracks

Then it was a legitimate military target. Blame Hamas for hiding in a hospital

[claudette]

26. I don't believe that

Is true

[sarisataka]

30. Why not?

[claudette]

37. Where

is the proof except Israel says. If Israel has been bombing these hideouts and destroying Hamas’ weapons why isn’t the war over?

[Bucky]

40. Is that a rhetorical question?

Hamas is a relatively big organization and they've had effective control of Gaza for nearly two decades.

But surely by now they've had plenty of time to squirrel away all sorts of weapon and supply depots

[sarisataka]

42. At the moment there is equal proof

That it was a full hospital and no Hamas fighters in the building. You may recall the initial reports of a hospital bombing turned out to be somewhat inaccurate.

During the first Gulf war, I watched our forces Bomb Iraqis on the surface for 6 weeks. There were still quite a few of them able to fight at the end of that campaign.

Real war is not like the movies.

[GuppyGal]

3. I thought they had no fuel ???

[SickOfTheOnePct]

7. Quite remarkable

Isn’t it?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

14. I've found it interesting that there is no power or Internet access in Gaza

Yet streaming video of nighttime attacks on buildings illuminated by streetlights are still coming out.

[Hekate]

13. Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields by digging 500 miles of tunnels...

…under hospitals and every other piece of infrastructure in Gaza. Also the hospital was supposedly out of fuel, so where did the patients go. In addition (so I have read at DU today) the hospital seems to have been repurposed as a Hamas barracks.

Where does the truth lie?

[claudette]

28. That could be

Propaganda. It would seem if Israel has been bombing all these so-called hideouts filled with weapons that the war would be over by now.

[TheProle]

34. No you're right

Israel is genociding all the Palestinians, starting with the cancer patients, knowing they won't put up as much of a fight as, say, little Jewish babies in their cribs, who were bravely fought and defeated by Hamas.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

36. You might want to do a bit of research on munitions

The US has bombs that would be capable of destroying the tunnels from the air, but if you're upset about collateral damage now, you would absolutely lose your mind over the collateral damage that comes with those munitions.

[Igel]

38. I don't know if we've shared.

Or maybe Israel developed its own in parallel or retrospect?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

39. I don't know either

But I don't doubt that if Israel asks for them, we'll give them to them. At least I hope we would.

[enid602]

17. ADL

Jonathan Greenblatt, Director of the ADL was on CNN this AM. He said that people in the US who criticize this operation in Gaza tend to be ultra liberal left wing socialists. I remember when ADL was considered progressive. Gaza is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[LexVegas]

18. ADL is progressive. The extreme right and left have always had antisemitism in common. nt

[enid602]

20. Destruction

I’ve never heard progressives or the left being critical of Israel until this chapter of Gaza. Maybe it’s because we’d hate to see the destruction of Gaza be followed by that of Tel Aviv.

[xmas74]

21. They were critical long before this

With many demanding not just leaving Gaza but completely handing over Israel in general.

The RW and LW sometimes shakes hands, in this case over antisemitism.

[Beastly Boy]

22. I remember the time when the left wing socialists were considered progressive

[enid602]

23. Fox

What’s interesting is to note Greenblatt’s choice of words. He, BiBi and other Israeli spokespeople sound more and more like Fox News.

[FHRRK]

43. Amazing isn't it

Was thinking the same earlier, hell I see RW tactics used on this site.

Zero tolerance of others positions, repeating the same claim over and over, just crazy stuff.

[Tomconroy]

24. I looked at xitter. Not definitive but I haven't seen

Any damage consistent with a bombing. There are posts saying the third floor was hit. And if that's true it wasn't a bomb. The interior shots floating around purporting to show the damage show very little actual damage.
We need more info but if I had to wager at this point my money is on 'more Hamas bullshit'.

[claudette]

29. And you're

going with Twitter?

[Tomconroy]

33. This is floating all over xitter by anti Israel sources

Link to tweet

So the bombing a hospital story is bs. Apparently.

Xitter for all its faults is the best source for breaking news. You just have to be yr own editor.
Dozens of bots sending out the same message, same images and same claims all at the same time. The old Russian propaganda playbook that NAFO fights.
Too bad it gets repeated on DU without any attempt to verify.

[Mossfern]

31. And so many

consider it as fact before confirmation
I do wonder why the IDF would bomb a hospital just to be cruel.
It's not their pattern. There needed to be a specific military target before they would attack.

[Tomconroy]

44. There are now more bot posts saying the bombing

Was near the hospital.

[WarGamer]

27. The rationalization here... Le Sigh.

[Mossfern]

32. link?

[Tomconroy]

35. Go on xitter and search Gaza cancer hospital.

That's what I did. But see above if you want a xit.

[Chainfire]

41. Perhaps the reasoning is that if you destroy the homes, hosptials and other infrastructure, that the former occupants

won't have anything to come back to and may just go away. The Germans used a scortched earth policy in Russia, and then the Russians did the same thing (even on their own territory). The US and England did their best to depopulate cities, even cities that had little to no military value, so I admit that Israel wouId not be plowing virgin ground in even the last 80 years. I don't think that actions were right then or now.

Hamas' action at the start of this war was brutal and unforgivable, there is not justification for murder, it was a crime against humanity and the people who planned and executed the action should have to pay with their lives and the sooner the better; but not their wives and children.

WHO says that somewhere around 3,000 Gazan children have died in this war. I don't have any way of knowing if that number is correct, or whether it may only be 2,000 or even 1,000, however children are no nation's "enemy." Hamas may actually come out the winner in this whole mess if their goal was to weaken Israel's standing with their allies. They may have baited Israel into such a brutal overraction that they come out on top.

To head off the comment that I know will come, I also know that Israeli childrend have died too, and I do not condone that either, but killing one child does justify killing another child.

Now you can count the seconds until someone replies, "Well, the WHO gets their information from Hamas" with the implication that my numbers are invalid. My question, in anticipation is, "Well, how many children do you think have died?" What numbers are you willing to accept and Is there a number that is one too many? Is 100 OK but 5.000 too many? I think that it is a straightforward and reasonable question and deserves an answer other than just waving the flag.

[EndlessWire]

45. The purpose is to end Hamas.

Any solution you choose is grim. Israel is going to have to take the tunnels, which in many cases are under civilians. This is what Hamas planned for. You don't build tunnels like that overnight.

Hamas is like NK. Lil' Kim's people are starving and needy, while he uses money to fund his ambitious nuclear program, even though no one wants anything to do with him. He also has tunnels under the ground, which I read he had stocked with his favorite snack. Kim is ugly and cruel, executing his relatives and leaders in hideous ways. They all seem to copy one another, and they are not normal people.

Hamas cannot be allowed to remain in Gaza. They are every bit a threat to Gaza as Israel's ground war will be. And, where are the hostages? If I were a hostage, I'd be praying that someone was coming to rescue me. As long as Hamas has those hostages, Israel will be coming after them. The entire end of the game is on Hamas. It could be so easy to conclude the war, but Hamas has a human shield, and is continuing to lob shells out.

If we want Gaza to become a separate state, Hamas has got to go. Gaza can never be any more than a population of human cannon fodder if Hamas is allowed to remain in control. They will never, ever have any kind of prosperity, or freedom, or hope of freedom if Israel doesn't take care of Hamas. The Palestinians are not capable of solving this problem on their own.

We talk about diplomatic solutions. What kind of person beheads a baby? Kills kids in front of their parents, or burns people to death? Monsters do. And if they did it to Israelis, they wouldn't hesitate to do it to a Palestinian. They do not exist for the welfare of Gaza.

Many politicians and civilians are calling for an end to the bombing. Well, here come the ground troops. End of bombing, mostly. Still won't help. Safety corridors won't help. Aid workers will just become replacement human shields. I think the UN should change the optics and bring in 10,000 blue helmets from all over the world and arrest Hamas. Well armed and ready.

Hamas seems to be the elected government of Gaza. Well, that's a pickle. Seems like they started a war they can't finish. That's what they chose for their citizens, along with poverty, and third world status forever.

Meanwhile, back in Ukraine, no one cared about those people getting the shit bombed out of their civilians by Russia. Oh, they probably cared for awhile--I recall safe corridors that got bombed, civilian car caravans that got bombed, hospitals, apartments, markets, and all that, that were destroyed--but when they discovered that it wasn't going to stop, they just muted their objections. Well, this ME war isn't going to EVER stop unless Gaza is separated out and Hamas is permanently retired.

All those ME nations have a legitimate concern about the whole matter because they live next door. But, they don't have to have diplomatic relations with Hamas. Egypt stepped up, but I heard that Jordan wouldn't let refugees into their country. They know what they are doing. And they know about Hamas. It's just sad that nobody cared about the poor civilians before Hamas dragged them into a war they could never win without the Arab League joining in. And, as nasty as those guys are, the ME heads of state don't want WW3, either.

[Chainfire]

46. So, it is a case of the end justifies the means?

If every member, every soldier, every supporter of Hamas is eliminated, do you think that that will bring peace to the region? I seem to remember an organization called the PLO. After Hamas, there will be a successor because the people will never forget what is happening today, and the cycle of hate and revenge will not end until both parties learn to hate war more than they hate peace.

[EndlessWire]

48. I didn't say that.

Last edited Tue Oct 31, 2023, 01:35 PM - Edit history (1)

You are presuming that the means is the killing of civilians. That is better applied to Hamas, who placed military assets behind human shields, told the population not to leave, and is holding hostages. The only thing Israel did was to attempt to move the population out of the way.

You can only do so much. I don't think that those people are stupid. Give them a chance. First of all, Israel will not get rid of everyone who is associated with Hamas. Why? The Hamas leaders live in Quatar. Of course, they will reorganize. But the void can be filled by civilian Palestinians who do not want to make war.

Some problems can be fixed by the two or three state solution. I think that Gaza and the West Bank should be separated and allowed to form their own countries. Gaza and the West Bank are governed by different entities, and getting rid of Hamas doesn't mean that the other entity has to be the next government. Let them form their own, new government for the Gaza Palestinians.

If they reelect radical antisemites, it's on them. The war will be over, until they do it again. But it doesn't have to be like that. They will receive the aid they will need. They will recover. They can have peace without Hamas.

Of course, the cost at the moment is horrendous. But, a one-sided condemnation of Israel without urging Hamas to also stop fighting is biased and only serves Hamas. I suspect that Hamas has gotten what it intended.