UPDATE: Newsflash for doubters of Fani Willis': "she cannot try all nineteen defendants in one case

[babylonsister]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/8/15/2187356/-Newsflash-for-doubters-of-Fani-Willis-s-skills-she-cannot-try-all-nineteen-defendants-in-one-case

UPDATE: Newsflash for doubters of Fani Willis': "she cannot try all nineteen defendants in one case"
Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 6:52:45a EDT
Jai2


This is not her first rodeo…

First, the clerk of the court leaked the indictment not DA Willis’ office. The leaked indictment was posted on the court’s website not the website of the DA.

Second, in the Atlanta School’s cheating case her office indicted 35 defendants or almost double those indicted in TFG’s alleged criminal enterprise. Those saying its “aggressive” — yeah, she’s a prosecutor. I notice that Jack Smith skills and strategy were not questioned but immediately accepted as “smart,” yada, yada, yada. DA Willis has earned that same respect.

In the cheating teacher case, all 35 educators were indicted for RICO and other offenses. Of those, 21 pleaded guilty, two died before trial and 11 of the 12 who went to trial were convicted. Please also remember that this criminal enterprise happened in public view. My guess is the Georgia telephone call alone by TFG satisfies all the elements of the Georgia RICO statute.

However DA Willis decides to try this case whether in a single trial or in multiple trials the media who has never tried a RICO case under Georgia’s RICO statute need to provide her the same respect provided to Special Counsel Jack Smith and stop second guessing her trial strategy...talking to you MSNBC.

SHE GOT THIS!!!!!


UPDATEx2: First, I’m glad this resonated with folks. Second, for those attempting to explain that the pundits are correct because 19 defense attorneys, voir dire, jury selection, logistics and so on and so forth I remind you that DA Willis has successfully tried 11 RICO cases under Georgia’s RICO statute just as the DA. She tried more of such cases as an assistant DA. As such, DA Willis is in fact an expert at successfully prosecuting these cases under the Georgia RICO statute so why assume that she has not thought about and prepared for any complicated logistics for the most important case of her career? Further, why assume that she was not aware that some of the Defendants will plead out when she made the statement about it being tried as a single case when that is exactly what happened in the school cheating case referenced. This conversation happened immediately after the DA’s press conference when the pundits had received the indictment a mere hour before. To make such declarative statements about DA Willis’ case and trial strategy as if all of them know her case better than she does I found offensive. I am also quite certain that those same pundits as lawyers would also find it offensive if it were done to them in one of their cases.

snip//

The pundits also claimed that the 167 acts identified was “overkill????” This is one of the most important cases in this Nation’s history there is no such thing as “overkill.” Add to that that the case is being litigated in the South and will likely include TFG’s supporters on the jury...I would have included 500 acts if the law and facts supported that number.

[gab13by13]

1. You are preaching to the choir,

but please proceed.

[Beastly Boy]

36. Welcome to the choir, Gab!

For someone who was certain that Georgia will not have an independent judiciary system before shit hits the fan in Trump's face, you have certainly come a long way.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217706793#post8

Apparently, time matters after all, and in time even the most oft repeated nonsense fades into obscurity.

On edit: Speaking of oft repeated nonsense, I would love to hear your opinion as to how any conceivable changes in FEDERAL government make any difference in the timing of STATE charges.

[BComplex]

2. THIS!!!!

Thanks for posting this, babylonsister, and I totally agree with everything here!!

I think Fani Willis is a friggin' genius, and I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.

[ananda]

14. No, you are not alone!

Willis is great!

[we can do it]

27. Exactly, had just about enough know-it-alls to last a lifetime.

[PortTack]

32. Yes...she's great..deserves a lot of credit for helping save our democracy!

[BadgerMom]

39. She will go down in history as a true American hero.

Of course, not in Florida or Arkansas. /s

[PortTack]

41. Indeed!

[Walleye]

3. Some of these guys just have to mansplain, they can't help themselves

[Marthe48]

22. They must fill air time

but their bosses, focus groups, ratings, whatever, demand they only cover 3 topics per show at the most. So, what to say, what to say? Let's play devil's advocate, and slam the people who are working to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and ignore, omg, so many other current events!

My friend said when she was young, she thought becoming a tv news reporter would be a fun job. She's been watching cable tv news this week, and can't believe how monotonous the repetition of the same news became, and how boring the job would really be. She said Frank Figliuzzi probably doesn't want to answer his phone. lol

[Walleye]

23. Really my main criticism is none of them ever say anything I haven't heard before

There’s no point in different people weighing in. Somebody whispers their talking points and they go with them all day

[Marthe48]

29. I agree

Having an ex-pres. indicted is historic, but I'm to the point that I don't want to be glued to the news. If I watch the news, I try to pay attention to how the story gets spun, sometimes into the opposite of the original impact.

[Lonestarblue]

4. Thank you! Yesterday, the Post ran an opinion by Ruth Marcus that made me want to scream.

She is usually a middle of the road writer, but she opined that Willis was just piling on and that her case was unnecessary. She was roundly chastised in the comments, but I think both racism and misogyny have led a few pundits to charge Willis with overkill or not understanding the task she has set for her state’s prosecution. She is a smart, experienced prosecutor, just like Jack Smith is a smart, experienced prosecutor. No one questioned him or his tactics, instead calling his approach brilliant.

[delisen]

10. Agree.

I personally would not have charged all the teachers who were charged by Willis because I believed them to be pressured in their actions by the school superintendent, who was in turn, pressured by the Atlanta business community to get test scores up.

However Willis was within her rights as prosecutor and succeeded.

Marcus tend to be a centrist man’s feminist.

[LiberalFighter]

43. We need to call out the so called experts by name.

That puts more pressure on them.

[tom_kelly]

5. Thank you, sister n/t

[llashram]

6. I think it's

racial. But what the hell do I know?

[Hekate]

18. Misogyny and racism are a powerful duo in this country. Fani Willis is genius, & I love that ...

…electors chose her — but Cable TV Talking Heads gotta fill their time, and not all of them are genius.

[llashram]

19. very true this

[Walleye]

26. I remember Shirley Chisholm when she was asked which was more of an obstacle, her race or her sex

She said by far the fact that she was a woman was more disadvantageous to her

[aeromanKC]

7. Gotta believe that most of these defendants will plea out.

Over/Under about 8 who actually go to trial..?? I'd even take the under on that one. Most are 1st offenders who do not have grifting PACs.

[summer_in_TX]

8. Fani Willis's RICO case approach achieves more, IMO.

It’s brilliant because it pulls in multiple conspirators and shows in one criminal case the depth of the plot.

Makes me wish the RICO approach was being used in other cases.

Brava, Fani!

[niyad]

9. MISOGYNOIR-defined as sexism and racism aimed at Black women.

[ShazzieB]

55. Oh, what a great word!

I am delighted to add this to my vocabulary. Less than delighted by the need for such a word, but as long as misogynoir exists in society (and it certainly does), we need a name to call it by!

[happy feet]

11. Hear! Hear!

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. A lot of defendants makes a quick trial very difficult

Because they all have to be given enough time to assemble a defence, and any one of them can try delaying tactics. That "2 of the 35 died while waiting for trial" is an indication it wasn't fast: indictment on March 29th, 2013; trial begins August 2014, and takes 8 months.

[NCjack]

28. As the trial extends in time, the defendents' lawyer costs grow. That will drive some to make deals

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. Or it will drive Trump and his PACs to pay for the lawyers

He may not normally pay his, or his lackies', lawyers, but when they're threatening to do deals because there's no way they're going to get paid, that slush fund will actually start paying out. I wouldn't count on "we can turn some of these people because they can't afford a trial".

[PortTack]

33. He doesn't have money to pay for anyone's legal fees, he can barely pay his own

He started off with $150 mil, now down to 4. Grifting is now $1 dollar coming in, to two going out.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/07/legal-defense-bills-are-wiping-out-trumps-pac.html

[NCjack]

37. Trump is withholding support for co-conspirators -- to pay his bills.

See

].

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. Yeah, but that's when it doesn't hurt him.

Given the choice between them turning on him and getting his trial finished before the election (with them providing evidence against him), or him paying their bills, he'll do the latter.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

52. He's already hurt

The indictments wouldn't have dropped if the DA didn't think there was enough evidence for convictions already, or if she needed anyone to turn on him. She's got plenty of witness testimony, videos, tapes, emails, paper trails, etc. She doesn't need them.

IMO the co-conspirators are on their own. He's already refused to pay attorney's fees for one of the women, who I hear is crowd-sourcing her attorney's fees.

[muriel_volestrangler]

57. I don't think it's guaranteed he's going to prison before the November election

which is what really matters to him. If he can spend PAC, campaign or even his own money to avoid that (dragging trials out, or stopping conspirators from giving evidence against him), he will. There will undoubtedly be games of chicken and negotiation between conspirators' lawyers and the Trump campaign, but it won't be "Trump pays for no one".

[dsc]

13. I will say 35 teachers is a far cry from 19 well connected

people many of whom are wealthy, laywers, or both. That said, it is doable but won't be lightning quick. I don't see nearly two thirds of the cases disposed of before trial here.

[Ford_Prefect]

15. Most of the doubters don't know how RICO cases are tried

Some doubt any woman in charge.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

48. The Pundits are out of their league...criminal law, procedure and prosecution.

You can almost hear the screams of the self owned incompetency.

Might as well be punditing on neuro surgery.

[Ford_Prefect]

49. I blame home schooling, a lack of rigorous training in logic and reason, and poor writing in general

to say nothing of editors with agendas...

I don't mean to sound like the old fart complaining but in my day (not THAT long ago) many of the current crop of punters wouldn't have passed J-school.

[MLAA]

16. You are so right. Too many pundits with their their misogyny and racism. Or as

Niyad just taught me misogynoir. Some doing so with subtlety and some more blatantly.

[Silent Type]

17. Still bet all 19 are not prosecuted at same trial. But I ain't betting against Willis.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. Meadows may succeed in getting airlifted to Fed court; perhaps he has a giant plea deal with Smith?

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

58. I doubt that he'll make the cut for federal court

Aiding and abetting a crime wasn't part of his job description.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

20. Willis has EARNED respect. She should be given it. R E S P E C T . . nt

[multigraincracker]

24. I support her 100%.

I had a great lawyer and told her what had learned and quoted a few rulings. She said you read the paper and have the internet, so now you think you are a lawyer. She went on tell me what judge will say and how he would rule. She hit it perfect.
She knew that court and that judge. It will be the same with this DA, she knows this court and this judge.

[LiberalFighter]

45. That is important. Not all courts are the same.

They may be nearly the same but the operation and view might be slightly different.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

59. A big part of succeeding as a trial lawyer

Is knowing how to play to different judges. They're human, so they have all kinds of weird quirks that you don't want to run afoul of. The more you know about that judge, the better you could tailor your case to play up to the things s/he liked, and downplay or avoid the things s/he gets cranky about.

[dlk]

25. Prosecuting a failed coup d'etat under RICO is serious business

Willis is more than up to the task.

[spanone]

30. 👍🏼...K&R...👍🏼

[Jarqui]

34. It looks like a very strong indictment

She only needs to prove two predicate offenses. She has way more that.
Apparently she three recorded phone calls, texts, emails, etc
Lots of witnesses.

Fani has 30 unnamed, unindicted co-conspirators. That should scare the crap out of a bunch of the indicted.
We know 8 of the fake electors took a deal. So there are 22 others looking like they also took a deal.
49 co-conspirators ... think about that.

Something else struck me. There were 135 felonies alleged.
This Grand Jury was convened recently.
Fani had to present her evidence for all these felonies (a number with more than one person).
The Grand Jury had to vote on every one for every person.
She did this in very efficient time.
That tells me that her evidence is slam dunk easy to digest - which suggests really strong.
She was smart and took that jury through another RICO case just before so they were up to speed on the law before she started with this case.

Then you watch her in her PC

&ab_channel=13WMAZ
She is not messing around.
Some debate on this but she maintains it is a 5 year minimum sentence for RICO
She wants the case to start within 6 months.
I am very impressed with her efforts.

Consider the above. You can be sure some of those 19 don't want to spend 5 years in jail.
I suspect the case will get smaller as some flip.

For some reason, Meadows and probably Trump are trying to move it to a Federal court. Might be for a judge or jury preference. Might be to slow it down or all of the above.
I've heard arguments going both ways on how that will turn out.
But Fani and her staff stay with the case regardless.
Georgia law stays with the case regardless.
Georgia sentencing and difficulty getting a pardon stays with the case regardless.

Trump is in serious trouble with all four of these indictments

[MorbidButterflyTat]

53. +1

[Marius25]

35. Andrew Weissman said he can't see her trying all 19 at the same time

because it would benefit the defense. You don't want 19 defendants, and all their lawyers in the court room at the same time. It would be complete chaos.

So hopefully she splits them up into several groups.

[Justice matters.]

40. Fani Willis is methodical and experienced in those matters.

It will take the time it will take, but she has a very solid case with irrefutable evidence. The DC trial will go on first, though, and relatively fast (4 to 6 weeks for SC Smith to present his case).

[republianmushroom]

42. No over kill, the 167 acts shows how crooked this crime family is.

Lock them all up, starting with trump, meadows on down.
Let them become members of the "Felon Club" and spend some time in a Georgia prison.

[LiberalFighter]

44. It would be nice if we could be hooked up with all of the experts...

and when they opine stupid comments they get a shock.

[Blue Owl]

46. K&R

[Delphinus]

47. Any ideas

about WHY
First, the clerk of the court leaked the indictment not DA Willis’ office. The leaked indictment was posted on the court’s website not the website of the DA.

Will this hurt the case?

[UpInArms]

50. Two words

Chicago Seven

…

All at once … what’s a few more … or less

[Brainfodder]

51. I aint worried I give -10 at TFGs chances of dodging it all and avoiding prison, HOWEVER...

Him dying beforehand, a tad above 10%?

Wouldn't even care how, he gone, good!

Heartless cretin.



If he dies before any punishment phases complete, DEFINITELY have his body on display in D.C.?




NEED TO BE FUCKING SURE!

[oldsoftie]

54. Of course she CAN, but I'll bet she WONT.

Comparing the teacher case to this is a bit off course. And I followed that case closely. She was awesome. But odds are, one of these appeals will get split.

[soldierant]

56. MSNBC, you say?

That wouldn't by any chance have been Mrs. Greenspan? It sounds like her.

[onenote]

60. Willis knows that the trial will not start in six months.

That doesn't mean there was anything wrong with her saying it should. That's aspirational and a way to send the signal she wants to push it. But ultimately the judge will have more to say about when the trial begins and how long it takes.

And, in this regard, the Atlanta Cheating Scandal trial example is instructive, but not in the way the DailyKos piece suggests.

The indictments in that case were handed down in March 2013. Jury selection didn't being until August 2014 -- nearly 18 months later. The trial began at the end of September and took six months to complete.

So, from indictment to verdicts: over two years.