Family Member Of Child Murdered By Cruz, Said Jury Verdict Was 11-1 In Favor Of Death

[SoCalDavidS]

I realize the majority here are against the Death Penalty, but Every Single Parent that has spoken today, have expressed extreme disappointment, and feel that Justice was not served.

Several also say that Cruz had a smirk on his face as verdicts were read, and that Defense counsel, although they had an obligation to serve their client, have shown complete disrespect and a lack of compassion towards them all throughout the trial.

[samnsara]

1. he will have a lifetime of a tortured existance.

[SoCalDavidS]

2. So Will The Families Of His Victims

Only he'll be alive, eating 3 meals a day. Doing jail activities, and making friendships.

And taxpayers will pay for all of it.

[honest.abe]

7. This guy should be put to death. That would be the best closure for the families.

Last edited Fri Oct 14, 2022, 08:29 AM - Edit history (1)

Damn shame.

[Ms. Toad]

43. Except that it doesn't actually bring closure.

Death penalty appeals are extensive - since the penalty is the ultimate penalty.

Many cancer patients who have large tumors removed are left with an open wound, because closing it to heal is too risky. Death penalty appeals are the emotional equivalent of these open wounds. Each appeal is like poking a stick into the still open wound and stirring it around.

And even when carried out - an average of 15 years later - the execution rarely brings closure to the families.

Here is some information: https://ejusa.org/resource/the-closure-myth/

https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0813531823

Full disclosure: I am both the sibling of a murderer who was on death row for 2 decades, who came within 36 hours of execution - and a friend/distant cousin of one of his victims. All of the closest family members of my brother's victims asked that he not be put to death. The largely estranged parents of one of his two victims wanted him executed - but, even more, just wanted to never hear his hame again.

[honest.abe]

48. It is unfortunate the process takes so long.

[Ms. Toad]

52. The process takes so long because when we move faster, we murder innocent people.

190 innocent people, disproportionately people of color, have been exonerated since 1973. The longest time between conviction and exoneration is 46 years. Many of those innocent, and now exonerated, people would have been out to death had the process taken less time. It is unknown how many innocent people have been out to death, since the legal process largely stops at execution.

A safer (and cheaper) way to avoid state murder of innocent people is to eliminate capital punishment.

That is also more likely to bring closure to the victims' families, since true healing can't begin until there is finality in the sentencing.

[honest.abe]

54. 15-20 years is too long.

There will always be issues with mistakes and innocents being convicted. That shouldn’t stop the process.

[inthewind21]

55. You'd

Have a different opinion if it were you tangled in that process and innocent.

[honest.abe]

65. Yeah, but in this case there is no question of guilt.

[inthewind21]

72. So what

Rules/laws for selective cases? In a LOT of the exonerations there was also no question of guilt. How would that work?

[honest.abe]

74. You wrote: "if it were you tangled in that process and innocent."

In this case there is clearly no chance of the accused being innocent and the horrific nature of the crime so yes the death penalty is the correct choice.

[Ms. Toad]

84. So you're ok with the state killing innocent people. Gotcha. N/t

[honest.abe]

93. No. Of course not. In this case clearly the dude is guilty and deserves the death penalty.

We are talking about this case and similar cases where there is virtually no doubt about guilt and the crime is horrendous.

[Ms. Toad]

95. You can't have it both ways.

Last edited Fri Oct 14, 2022, 10:36 PM - Edit history (1)

There isn't any magic "you're innocent/you're not" sorting wand. Speeding up executions for one person convicted of murder and sentenced to die inherently speeds it up for everyone, because the ways to speed up execution are the very ways which make it more likely that innocent people will be executed: is to take away rights to appeal, rights to habeas, rights to present newly discovered evidence, rights to testing of old DNA, etc.

So if you are in favor of speeding it up in certain cases, you are inherently OK with killing innocent people whose rights to prove their innocence will be sped up and truncated.

[honest.abe]

96. Yes unfortunately that is the problem.

I still say the evil creep deserves to die.

[BigDemVoter]

87. Unless it's you or someone you know in prison and innocent.

[honest.abe]

94. This guy is not innocent. He is guilty as sin and slaughtered innocent children. He admits it.

I cannot imagine a more clear case that deserves the death penalty.

[BigDemVoter]

97. Yes, but allowing the death penalty to continue means an innocent person WILL be executed.

And did you know it is more expensive to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life?


My problem is with the system. Number one, I don't think the state/country should be in the business of killing our citizens. And number two, it isn't a deterrent to crime. And number three, it isn't carried out fairly. You might say, "Well, this guy IS guilty", and he IS clearly. . . . He certainly isn't getting off easy. He will probably find himself wishing for death.

The entire system is fucked up and full of abuse and corruption. Someone who is white and/or rich is much less likely to be executed than someone who is a minority. The system is stacked against the poor.

Executing this piece of shit would just perpetuate the whole shitty system. This little punk should spend the rest of his days in prison just contemplating what he did to find himself in the penitentiary. I can assure you that he won't be having fun. May he have a long and miserable life incarcerated in the FL penal system. . .

[honest.abe]

99. You make some good points.

I am done with this thread. Ciao.

[BigDemVoter]

86. And even the prospect of murdering ONE innocent person is too much for me.

And it's happened, and it does happen. Courts refuse to look at new evidence produced by DNA that would exonerate people, and they just go ahead and execute them.

Of course I'm not saying this is the situation in every case, but I just can't bear the idea of one innocent person paying the ultimate price.

People tend to underestimate how awful prison is. . .

[Ms. Toad]

90. Completely agree.

The legal process is stacked against criminal defendants. There are so many things which have to be done right at the trial level or the errors can never be corrected. The prosecution has much more, and better compensated, resources - stacking the deck even further against an innocent person caught up in the system. When a person who is actually innocent fails to overcome the systemic biases, the errors that system creates are the very kind the supreme court has said are irrelevant to the state's right to execute that person - because they have exhausted their right to appeal.

[inthewind21]

53. The death

of Cruz won't make the families whole either. Unfortunately, it's a no win situation for them. No matter what penalty is handed down their family members will still be dead. In murder cases, there is NOTHING that can ever make it right.

[ornotna]

5. Yep

No way does he get off easy. I expect most of that time will be spent in administrative confinement.

[Samrob]

34. Life can be short in prison for killing children. nt

[BigDemVoter]

85. Agreed 100%

He won't have a smirk on his face too long. . .

I suspect that the other prisoners in the penitentiary will take a dim view of a mass killer of adolescents even if he's one himself.

[Blues Heron]

3. Thank god for that holdout

We really do not need any more death - although I realize some really want it.

[GoodRaisin]

20. Yeah, the families.

Can’t blame them.

[marble falls]

4. The verdict and sentence are proper. There is never any justice for the victim of any violence ...

... they are beyond the vagaries of the justice system. The perpetrator has been given justice in our name, and I am satisfied on that one detail.

The availability of guns is the injustice here.

[mike_c]

21. +1

[OAITW r.2.0]

6. Hard to believe 1 person can negate the will of the other other 11 juror's.

Seems like the process of deciding punishment should not rely on 100% agreement. If a majority vote for the death penalty, that should suffice. Alternately, if a person can't abide by the death penalty, he/she ought to be able to abstain from voting. I believe each juror stated that they could accept a death penalty conviction....so I think that person was probably lying about their position. In many cases, there is enough uncertainty to find for a death penalty....this wasn't one of them.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. More likely, they were asked if they could consider the death penalty equally to life

imprisonment. They may have also been swayed by the talk of mitigating circumstances.

[atreides1]

11. Well

From what I understand the law requires a unanimous vote for the death penalty.

All that needs to be done is for people to petition to change the law from unanimous to a majority...

[jmowreader]

41. It does not

For something as serious as deciding whether to kill someone in the name of We The People, it needs to be a unanimous vote.

[GoodRaisin]

24. Jury decisions should always be 100% agreement.

Otherwise it becomes way too easy for innocent defendants to be convicted in our system of justice.

[ProfessorGAC]

27. Agreed!

While some states allow for majority decisions in civil trials almost all states (maybe all) and federal courts require unanimity in criminal trials.
I think that is highly appropriate.

[treestar]

61. Yes, we always have that happening

which is one reason why the DP should be abolished.

This defendant was guilty, as the evidence was clear. But the penalty is another matter.

[Hamlette]

33. NYTimes is reporting 3 voted against death penalty

[treestar]

60. Why assume that? If they are death-qualified it does not

follow that they HAVE to vote for the DP. Merely being for it does not logically mean you always think it should apply.

[BigDemVoter]

88. Maybe because it's the ultimate punishment, it has to be unanimous?

[Upthevibe]

8. Kick. N/T

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. That one is a brave person.

Several also say that Cruz had a smirk on his face as verdicts were read,

Honestly, sometimes I think there's no reaction that an audience will approve of. If he cried, people would say he was faking. If he laughed, people would say he's a monster. If he was stony-faced, people would say he was an unfeeling monster. If he was twisting his face trying not to cry or laugh, people would say he was smirking. People see what they want to see.

Every Single Parent that has spoken today, have expressed extreme disappointment, and feel that Justice was not served.

Justice is never served, because we can't agree on what justice looks like, and so many people looking to the system we have for justice are going to be disappointed.

[FoxNewsSucks]

12. I didn't see the whole thing,

but I never saw a smirk. Maybe I missed it. To me, and that's subjective as you say, he looked somber like someone who knows they're in deep shit. That also could be mere acting.

Also, when I think "smirk", I immediately think of that murderer Rittenhouse or that spoiled little MAGA pissant who got in the Native American's face then sued CNN for accurate reporting. Those were smirks.

[DET]

17. Not quite a smirk...

…but Cruz’ mood and demeanor clearly got lighter after he found out that he wouldn’t be sentenced to death. The situation called for complete solemnity; instead, there was a hint of ‘I won’ in Cruz’ attitude.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. Lol good lord.

[Jedi Guy]

37. I mean... I feel like being relieved that one isn't to be executed is fairly reasonable.

Perhaps he does feel like he won. Objectively speaking, though, what did he win? Many, many years without the freedom to do what he wants or go where he wants when he wants. Many, many years of boredom and perhaps solitude. Many, many years of possibly looking over his shoulder and fearing abuse by staff or other inmates. Some might say his victory is pretty small cheese, but I don't think a "whew, I'm not going to be executed" reaction is a big deal.

This isn't to say I feel sorry for him, because I don't. He richly deserves confinement for murdering innocent people in cold blood. I also wouldn't have lost any sleep if he had been sentenced to death, though. But that's me. YMMV.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

67. I gotta admit I'm a little disgusted at people, including the families, going after the jury.

It’s one thing for the families to be disappointed - but questioning the motives of people who did their duty and spent weeks in the jury box is over the top. Taking someone’s life is a big burden to put on the backs of 12 civilians. Fuck the people who want their blood lust satisfied and don’t mid ruining some innocent juror’s life by ginning up hate (apparently one juror has already been doxxed).

Now there’s talk someone was threatened by another jury member. Pro death people are making this out to be some loophole that’s going to get their way. Somehow I’m thinking, and I could be wrong, it’s going to come out the offender was on the the pro side.

Just a hunch. But law and order fascists don’t seem to respect others’ opinions.

I have several friends who are Public Defenders and they hate it when our liberal friends talk about avoiding jury duty. Too many people who show up for jury duty are “law and order cops only arrest guilty people” types.

[inthewind21]

73. Bingo

Everyone has an opinion. And when they get their jury summons, they jump through their asses to avoid it.

[BigDemVoter]

89. Agreed

I don't think it would matter what punishment he got. It would never be justice. How does one feel like justice has been serviced when the criminal has done something like this?

I still think of the Manson murders and how the young women smirked, sang songs and chanted nonsense in court and carved swastikas on their foreheads. Those same women (or at least the ones still alive) sure don't much like being in prison now that they have spent their entire productive lives there.

This murderous little punk will grow old in prison with no hope of ever getting out. I suspect that the penal system in FL is a grim place.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

13. To everyone who is in favor of the death penalty:

What part of the no killing commandment is unclear?

And which other commandments do you not follow?

[Buckeyeblue]

14. I'm not in favor of the death penalty

But I don't particularly follow any of the commandments. Mainly because the idea of a god is ludicrous.

That saying, this guy hurt children so I wouldn't have cared if they had executed him (I'm fickle that way). But as a parent that wouldn't bring me peace. After losing a child in such a way, anyway really, I'm not sure peace is possible.

[honest.abe]

16. How about an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth?

[yardwork]

44. Where is that in the Ten Commandments or the New Testament?

[honest.abe]

47. A commandment found in the Book of Exodus 21:23-27

"An eye for an eye" (Biblical Hebrew: עַיִן תַּחַת עַיִן, Ain takhat ain) is a commandment found in the Book of Exodus 21:23–27 expressing the principle of reciprocal justice measure for measure.

[yardwork]

49. That's the Old Testament.

[honest.abe]

50. Yes of course I knew that. So what's the problem?

[inthewind21]

57. Well

Depending on your choice or religion there's a big problem. So, what religion do you proclaim?

[honest.abe]

66. None specifically.

I’m kind of a wholistic believer in God. How about you?

[inthewind21]

78. My faith

Is between me and God. Not a pope, not a priest, not a preacher and not anyone else. And, you didn't answer the question. Strictly old testament?

[honest.abe]

80. I did answer.

Done with this thread. Ciao!

[Mosby]

76. It's not old to Jews.

Maybe stop using Christian terms for the Torah.

[inthewind21]

79. Bingo

[iemanja]

70. leaves the whole world blind.

[Jose Garcia]

22. The commandment is against murder, not killing

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

36. Let's, someone murdered ends up just as dead as

someone killed. To try to distinguish between the two, to justify legal murder, just doesn't cut it for me.

[Voltaire2]

45. It is literally against killing.

[inthewind21]

58. Pretty sure

The commandment is "Thou Shalt not kill" Not thou shalt not murder because that's different than killing.

[inthewind21]

81. I know

What the Tora says. Which is why I asked upthread another poster to define. The new testament and the old testament, The Torah, as you know are different. Because, those will be 2 different discussions yes? So you can calm down, I'm not trying to infringe on your Jewishness, I'm attempting to clarify.

[Mariana]

91. If you had actually read the stories

you would know that in addition to the famous ten commandments, God laid down a bunch of other laws. Many of those laws command that those who violate them be executed.

[Mosby]

75. Thou shall not kill is a mistranslation

The Hebrew says thou shall not murder

לֹא תִּרְצָח means murder, not kill.

לַהֲרוֹג is the word for kill.

[Javaman]

83. I'm against the death penalty but not for the reasons you asked

Time and time again the death penalty does nothing to curb or stop crime

However I’m completely for solitary confinement for the rest of this piece of shits life. No human contact at all. Let him slowly lose his mind

[Mariana]

92. We have a secular government.

We do not and should not base any laws on stories in a book that many citizens of this country consider to be fiction.

According to the stories, God laid down a whole bunch of commandments, not just ten. Many of them command that anyone who violates them must be killed.

[pinkstarburst]

15. I think Cruz is mentally screwed up

and there is no possibility of redemption. He is not going to suddenly find religion and become this great guy. I do pity the hand he was dealt because between the FAS, the early childhood trauma, and other experiences, not to mention the family that adopted him and later took him in after the death of his mother thinking this majorly mentally screwed up individual should have access to assault rifles. But I do not think he has the capacity to get better and become a decent person. He's been attacking guards in prison and continuing to be horrible. The best that can be hoped for is to lock him up where he can never hurt anyone else again.

What I fear is some loophole where by allowing monsters like him to live, lawyers continue to appeal, they try to find ways to appeal or challenge the sentence on whatever grounds down the line. Mental health. Blah blah. Rodney Reed in Texas, who raped five women besides the one he's challenging based on his death row conviction, would be an example of this.

[Aristus]

18. I strongly suspect that Florida's prison system will wipe that smirk off his face.

Not to mention the fact that prison is filled with fathers. They don't like child molesters or child murderers. I think Cruze's days of smirking will end soon.

[Jose Garcia]

23. He will probably be kept out of the general population

[Aristus]

25. If everyone who feared violent treatment from their fellow inmates

was kept out of the general population, would there even be a general population?

[Jedi Guy]

38. Most prisons and jails allow inmates to request transfers to other pods/holding areas.

All they need to do is express that they feel unsafe and they'll be moved. That's generally the case for interpersonal conflicts with or harassment from other inmates, though.

In situations like Cruz's, odds are he won't be safe anywhere he goes because of his notoriety. They'll either keep him in admin segregation from the get-go for his own safety, or he'll wind up there after the first beatdown (or worse) attempt. I think the chances are pretty good another lifer with nothing to lose might have a go at him. When you're already in for life, a sentence of X more years for assault is just racking up a high score.

[Torchlight]

26. I'm glad not to be on juries like this one.

I'm afraid my emotions would get the better of me, and I'd end up ignoring the line I draw between justice and vengeance.

[ProfessorGAC]

31. I Got Lucky In 2020

Felony domestic abuse case. But, the case was really(!) thin.
We agreed on not guilty in about 20 minutes. I called just one vote. 12 not guilty. We didn't have to even consider the penalty phase. That is, if the jury gets so involved in this state.
The trial was about 1 & 3/4 days. We were back in the courtroom in under a half-hour.

[inthewind21]

64. Happens

More than you might think. I've sat on a few juries but the one that stands out was a murder trial. And a little more than half the jury completely disregarded judges instructions, trial testimony and went with their own conjured up feelings based on nothing but imagination. We even had a few that were adamant about guilt because the defendant didn't testify. A constitutional right. Yes, they were willing to convict of murder based solely on that. Because hey, if you were innocent you'd testify right? Needless to say, we deadlocked. I highly recommend EVERYONE sit on a jury and not do everything under the sun to get out of it. Because once you do, and see how it all works and what goes on in the jury room, you'll have a whole different take on the US justice system. And be HIGHLY motivated to make sure your butt never ends up in the defendants chair and terrified at the same time at the realization that if you do, those 12 people in the other room, well, it's a total crap shoot.

[Mysterian]

28. I'm not against the death penalty because I don't want scum like Cruz dead

I'm against the death penalty because the government should not have the power of life and death. There are too many stupid and corrupt people in government to give them the ultimate power.

[mike_c]

29. the NYT is reporting a 9-3 vote

[Emile]

30. Self delete

Last edited Fri Oct 14, 2022, 01:37 PM - Edit history (1)

[obamanut2012]

40. Why?

[Emile]

42. Because I want his life to be a living hell!

[sir pball]

46. He shouldn't have a cellie. He should get the ADX Florence SHU treatment.

A 7x12 all-concrete cell for 23.5 hours a day, an empty concrete swimming pool with fence over the top for 30 minutes of exercise, and no human contact save the guards that march him to and from "recreation" and give him his meals. A book if he's well-behaved, if he's super good he gets a TV programmed to "educational or religious" shows.

May he live 75 years.

[treestar]

63. No, that is wrong

Who is the cell mate that he should get to part of the punishment? He's there to be punished himself.

[kcr]

32. It was 9-3

Not that it really matters because even if it had been 11-1 the outcome would still be the same.

[hlthe2b]

35. I would not criticize any of those parents for wanting the DP. But in the decades that likely

would pass before the end of the appeals and the sentence was to be carried out would likely (if at all consistent with other such similar instances) cause quite a few of those feeling this way today to ultimately change their minds.

And that is why we let juries/judges make these decisions and not family members. THat may sound harsh, but justice, not vengeance, requires that.

[cherish44]

39. I don't think the death penalty is necessarily the ultimate punishment. Life would be more agonizing

But I guess if it gives even one family member of the victims some peace, go for it.

[ecstatic]

51. I commend all the jurors. They all have to sleep at night and be comfortable

with their own decisions. You can't force or pressure someone into killing someone else.

I'm generally not a fan of the death penalty because it's inhumane and our justice system is very flawed and racist. Also, the DP can be seen as the easy way out. Sure, it's probably scary and stressful before it happens, but once it happens, the executed individuals are essentially freed from having to pay for their crimes.

All of that said, I'm not going to lose sleep over clearly guilty individuals. If I were on the jury, I think my answer would be NO to the DP, although it's possible that I would be worked up into a frenzy and thirsting for revenge. It's hard to know without actually being there so I can't judge any of those jurors.

[fescuerescue]

59. Personally I like the idea of him rotting in jail for 50 years.

And more importantly. Completely forgotten.

I think the death penalty would make him an icon among potential school shooters.

[Kaleva]

62. I'd vote for life in prison

[iemanja]

69. Most of us would have been excluded from the jury

For not supporting the death penalty.

[Kaleva]

71. I didn't know that

Looked it up and you are correct. Opposing the death penalty in most cases would exclude us from jury duty in such cases.

[iemanja]

68. The juror has been doxxed

Which is horrific but typical. This country is diseased.

[orleans]

98. how do you know?

just wondering

[iemanja]

101. I read it in another thread.

[helpisontheway]

100. Maybe one of the prisoners will take care of it. Many don't like people convicted of crimes

involving kids.