'I Testified in the Heard vs. Depp Trial. The Backlash Has Been Horrific' DR. DAVID R. SPIEGEL

[mzmolly]

I heard the news that Johnny Depp had won his defamation lawsuit against Amber Heard as the verdict was being read on June 1. I was very disappointed, first and foremost for Ms. Heard, who should have received much more of an outpouring of support than she did.

I have been a practicing psychiatrist for around 30 years and have previously provided medical malpractice expert witness testimony. But before the Johnny Depp vs. Amber Heard defamation trial, I had never provided witness testimony in any high profile cases.

I was asked to be an expert witness on this case in 2019, so I've actually been on the case for about three years and had been privy to every single detail of what's been happening for that period of time.

But when I signed on initially, the impression I had was that it would be a closed trial; there wouldn't be cameras and fans in court. Paparazzi outside the courthouse was never a problem, that's something I can handle, but the situation obviously took a different turn once the trial became a national, televised event. That said, I had a job to do and I did my job.

...

I would say to people who have attacked me that, just like they don't know Mr. Depp, they don't know me. This is my career, this is what I do. I'm an "emotions" guy, so I have no problem with people expressing emotion. But I have people expressing emotion that is hurtful and harmful, whether it be words or the ton of memes I've seen that are supposed to look like me when I'm testifying. I would ask people to remember that there are appropriate ways that you can say you are dissatisfied with my testimony or that it may have been short-sighted. I'm an expert at this. It's not like I saw one clip of Mr. Depp, and then said, "Oh, let me judge this."

More at: NEWSWEEK

[rsdsharp]

1. The backlash may be because he's kind of a goof.

https://m.

[mzmolly]

5. Depp is a goof

as well.

[Demsrule86]

21. I like Depp myself. The psychiatrist was an idiot.

[vsrazdem]

2. More like a rude, pompous ass.

[Patterson]

3. This is not about you, jerk. You came across as a nutball, just as Amber Heard did.

[SYFROYH]

4. Spiegel is kooky.

I can't believe anyone would ask him to be an expert witness after Depp v Heard.

[mzmolly]

6. He wasn't expecting to be a performer,

but an academic.

[SYFROYH]

8. I'm an 22 year academic and he was a kooky for an academic.

[mzmolly]

10. That doesn't make him

incorrect.

And I like kooky.

[Zeitghost]

29. You're right

His being incorrect, in this specific case, stems from his attempts to diagnose a personality disorder through media interviews and film roles. Although to be fair, his kookiness may have lead to that decision.

[mzmolly]

30. I believe what he testified to was the fact that:

..Depp’s behavior was “consistent with someone that both has substance use disorder as well as behaviors of someone who is a perpetrator of intimate partner violence.”

https://www.thewrap.com/psychiatrist-depp-heard-horrific-post-trial-backflow-david-spiegel/
That's not rocket science, frankly.

[Zeitghost]

31. I'm not sure

How any professional could come to that conclusion with nothing but interviews and film appearances.

[mzmolly]

34. Evidence.

Text messages, video and audio evidence.

[Hav]

39. But that's exactly why the Goldwater rule exists:

To prevent diagnosing someone just based on the things you mentioned and making that public.

[mzmolly]

43. I didn't think of his testimony as a diagnosis.

But it's tough to provide a dx when Depp refused to cooperate with anyone he wasn't paying. Smart from a legal standpoint.

[Demsrule86]

49. He never talked to Depp once and much of his evidence was considered to be unethical.

[mzmolly]

50. I think his position was painted as unethical.

But many who testify in trials, don't get cooperation from the participants.

[Hav]

9. But the reverse was true and exactly that was the problem

He was more of a performer. He was certainly not following academic standards and he embarrassed his profession. That and his unethical actions were the reason why he was perceived so negatively in contrast to other expert witnesses.

[mzmolly]

11. As he pointed out,

if he's violated standards there are many before him who have done the same.

I think people take issue with the fact that he testified Amber Heard had PTSD?

[Hav]

25. That's just wrong and one of the things he tried to be dishonest about

He compared general expert witness testimony with that of psychologists when additional guidelines for them exist. Due to the stigmatization of mental illnesses and the responsibility that comes with that profession, you need to actually meet with the person to perform interviews and tests before basically diagnosing them with personality disorders in public and he didn't do that. He based parts of his testimony on narcissistic personality disorder and he also made judgments on mental processing speed by comparing real life testimony with movies and commercials that have scripts and rehearsals.

His testimony and all the controversy centered around Depp, I'm not sure he even talked about Heard's PTSD.

[mzmolly]

32. His testimony bolstered the

PTSD diagnosis most refuse to acknowledge, is a better way to put it. I'm not sure he specifically stated she had PTSD but that Depp's behavior is consistent with that of an abuser etc.

Anyone reading Depp's text messages and watching him rant on video could determine that. Not to mention the testimony of people like Ellen Barken.

[Demsrule86]

22. That man is not an academic...and he was full of shit too.

[Hav]

7. Everyone should take a look at the way he testified

It was a joke and that's putting it nicely. Some of his statements were also unethical when he clearly violated long established guidelines of his profession.
Further, the way he puts part of the blame for the backlash directly on Depp and attacks his character while hinting at potential professional/financial consequences is very questionable as well. When evaluating his comments, one should keep in mind that Heard's lawyers are currently on a PR tour and this article is on brand.

[mzmolly]

12. I watched his testimony.

I think Depp had an excellent team of lawyers, but I also agree that Depp is an abuser.

The PR is behind Depp, clearly.

[obamanut2012]

13. Exactly

[BlackSkimmer]

17. +1

Funny how quickly people decided not to believe women.

[mzmolly]

33. Right?!

I used to be a fan of Depp's on a personal not professional level. (I'm a fellow West Memphis Three supporter, for example.)

I am sorry I ever watched the trial as I no longer have the same opinion of the man.

[Demsrule86]

48. Guess what no one should automatically believe men or women...both can lie. And Amber

Heard got caught in multiple lies. I watched the entire court case. The idea that if a woman comes forward she must be believed is nonsense. She needs to be given a fair hearing and that is it. I believe Amber Heard set Depp up and got caught in her lies. She couldn't remember what she said and actually used the same picture as evidence in two separate incidences was one I remember.

[BlackSkimmer]

53. Good to know where you stand.

[Kali]

62. people decided to not believe this one woman

for good reason. she is a liar.

[mzmolly]

64. As is Depp.

https://www.etonline.com/news/190049_amber_heard_texts_from_2014_detail_alleged_assault_by_johnny_depp_exclusive

[Hav]

18. The only definite evidence of abuse is of Heard abusing Depp

She not only admitted to it multiple times in recordings, she also ridiculed him for it when he talked about it with her and told him that he shouldn't bitch about it. And then she laughed about it and downplayed it in her deposition.
Is it possible that Depp abused her, too? Maybe, that would make both of them abusers then. But it doesn't help her case when she tries to prove it with, for instance, images that were clearly photoshopped or when she mentions a bruise kit, a kit specifically intended to fake bruises, not hide them. She might have won if she hadn't lied so much because there was quite a burden that Depp had to overcome.

[mzmolly]

20. Did you see his texts? Testimony from Heard's former makeup artist?

Testimony from mutual friends?

The jury concluded Depp was not abusive, thus he won the defamation suit. That's a joke IMHO.

[Hav]

46. Yes, and the jury had to weigh that with all the testimony

of people, including 3rd parties, police officers, her personal nurse and doctors, that there present at the time or met her close to the time of alleged abuse events and didn't notice any injuries on her.
And I think more importantly for the jury, the presented evidence didn't fit the extreme physical abuse she alleged. On one occasion, she claimed he punched her in the face so often that she lost count. But the next day, we have images that don't even show a hint of an injury, not even swelling. Makeup couldn't hide the horrible and life threatening abuse she described and why wouldn't there be photographic evidence or medical records backing her up?

We also have recordings that indicate that he was the one that retreated whenever things got too heated and she even ridiculed him for always running away from conflicts. These are things that just aren't consistent.

[mzmolly]

52. The article she was sued for didn't mention specifics, did it?

That said, I agree she's a dramatic person. But that doesn't mean she wasn't abused. I agree that Heard is toxic. But that doesn't mean she wasn't also abused.

Heard said she was desperate to keep Depp from running away and using, because he returned a monster. He used turmoil as an excuse to abuse drugs/alcohol and when he did - look out!

I think the jury was enamored with and conned by Depp and his excellent legal team. He's a captivating, witty, soft spoken, intelligent and charming man. Hard to see the 'monster' he spoke of through the gentle movie star persona.

Also, Depp said he lied at times, to appease Amber. Mr. "Truth" isn't so truthful, if we take him at his own word. He also had affairs. Again, that speaks to his credibility.

[Hav]

55. That he was running away from her to use drugs was her rationalization

for instances when she was obviously upset that he wasn't with her. Like when she pressured him for an hour in a very emotional state when he only wanted to spend time with his daughter.
But we don't need to believe what one side said over the other because there are recordings. We only need to listen to what is said and we can hear both parties expressing the same fact without contradictions that Depp tries to de-escalate conflicts and Heard acknowledges that. We don't hear her being concerned he might abuse drugs when he wants to be alone. What we hear instead is that she ridicules him for avoiding conflicts and that she wants to talk it out now. Those recordings rather paint a picture of Depp running away from his abuser and Heard engaging again and again without fear when things get heated. What they don't show is Heard being afraid of an extremely violent man.

If she had the same kind of evidence but reversed with him kicking a door in her face while trying to get into her room and both parties agreeing to this fact, Depp would have never been able to get this case going.

[mzmolly]

56. I think we can cherry pick many

parts of the trial, including disgusting language and violent ideations from Depp. Furniture violence and bizarre “art” he created with a finger he said he severed before changing his story. The fact that Depp apologized for being a monster etc.

I’m unsure why his toxic, violent actions and admitted lies are overlooked, while Heard is expected to be a perfect human being.

[Demsrule86]

44. True it is a rare thing to win a defamation suit.

[Demsrule86]

24. The doctor could get sued too if he defames Depp.

[inthewind21]

14. This enitre

Thread makes his case.

[mzmolly]

15. Indeed.

[gldstwmn]

16. The toxic masculinity surrounding this trial is gross.

Either he, his team, the studios or all three must have utilized Putin's troll farms because I have never seen a social media attack of that magnitude. It was disgusting.
Also the studios would sure like Johnny Depp to make them a couple of hundred million dollars in a weekend again.

[mzmolly]

23. Exactly.

Heard was tried in social media and the jury bought into it.

It certainly seemed like a coordinated effort, as you say.

I agree it will not be long before Disney announces Depp starting in ....

[Demsrule86]

42. No she wasn't. She was tried by a jury with judge and this time unlike the UK trial the

the judge didn't have a kid who worked for the publisher who was being sued.

[mzmolly]

45. She was also tried in social media.

I don't think that's debatable is it?

[Demsrule86]

26. Did you watch the trial? I am home as hubs had surgery so I watched. I started out on

Amber Heard's side...I had heard about the TRO...all that stuff. But as the trial continued, she absolutely lied. Amber also was arrested for abusing her girlfriend/wife in Seattle. And the last straw for me was when I heard a tape where she informed Depp that 'maybe she didn't slap him properly but hit him. She didn't punch him and he was fine...so stop being a baby. My ex-husband from a teenage marriage was abusive and he said the same thing to me...almost exactly. She was the abuser. And she set him up with the TRO...fake burst.

They proved that in court also...she is the monster. This didn't come out in court, but there are tapes that I have heard, and her buddies who were living off of Johnny at the time 'joke' about killing him. I don't know...was it a joke. I personally think he is lucky to get out alive. She is a horrible person and the internet didn't do it...she did.

[mzmolly]

28. I did watch and listen, while working.

I started out on Depp's side. And, came to the conclusion they both had credibility issues and were both abusive. That said, the power dynamic was definitely different and Depp is certainly more intimidating and violent than Amber Heard.

(Sorry I see your question was for another DU-er.) But it's interesting how so many can pay attention and come to differing conclusions.

[Demsrule86]

40. she was on tape hitting him and the bruise was fake that came out in court...they had a

a toxic relationship and no doubt were cruel to one another verbally...but in all that evidence there was not one bit of proof that he hit her or abused her...and after described the broken bottle 'rape'. Well, that would cause injuries and she had no medical reports to back anything up. I started thinking how sad that Johnny was abusive but then as the trial went on I don't think he was. She was. There is so much evidence against her. Defamation is very difficult to prove and she was guilty on all counts. I also don't think you start abusing people at 56...look at Sean Penn...people have known for years about him. My brother-in-law (cop) arrested him in New York as he hit Madonna right on the street.

[mzmolly]

51. I wouldn't agree that she faked bruises. Her makeup artist

testified to covering bruises and a split lip for Amber Heard. Mutual friends testified to seeing Amber injured and bruised and worrying for her health and wellbeing. Heard presented photos that were called 'fake' but she presented them, none the less.

I agree that one doesn't become abusive at 56. But Depp was controlling and insecure according to more than one former lover.

I think we all can agree that the relationship was toxic, regardless. So sad when people who have it all, are self-destructive.

[gldstwmn]

54. I thought the social media campaign

was coordinated and revealed ugly attitudes toward women in general under the guise of defending Depp.
Their relationship was toxic and I do think that Depp is a narcissistic drug addict who did in fact abuse her. The age gap most definitely contributed to their issues. I do not think she was capable of inflicting as much harm on him as he could on her. He is also the better actor for what it's worth. I will never quite look at him the same. No matter, I'm sure he'll open a movie in the future and the studio will take in hundreds of millions of dollars which was the whole point of his defense to begin with. I saw the way he started walking toward her that day in the courtroom before they stopped him. It was menacing, set all of my alarms off and I knew right then he was acting and was capable of abuse.

[mzmolly]

57. Agree 100%!

You took the words right out of my mouth!

[gldstwmn]

58. I'm surprised more people don't see it

[mzmolly]

60. I am as well.

[Autumn]

19. Seems like it was on Amber to provide believable evidence if he expected her to win.

It's not up to anyone to judge that, not the witnesses, not the experts not the audience. All they have are opinions. The jury said "Oh, let me judge this". And they judged her, her experts and witnesses to be not believable.

[mzmolly]

27. Difficult to believe

after watching and listening to the trial, personally.

Some of the most compelling testimony came from Rocky Pennington -

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2022-05-18/johnny-depp-amber-heard-raquel-rocky-pennington-corroboration

And Heard's former makeup artist.

[Autumn]

35. My granddaughter is a make up artist. She does fantastic bruises.

And what she does with latex at Halloween is awesome. When she's done it looks like you came off a horror set.

[mzmolly]

37. Can she cover bruises

too?

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/makeup-artist-becomes-emotional-when-recounting-heard-s-divorce-with-depp-140297285923

[Autumn]

41. I'm sure she can. None of need bruises coved up though. We only need bruises for Halloween.

Or if she wants to freak someone out.

[mzmolly]

47. Glad to hear it.

[Demsrule86]

36. That is it Autumn...She was lying IMHO.

[Autumn]

38. I'm of that opinion. I have encountered people like her before.

[brooklynite]

59. I can honestly say I haven't followed this story at all.

I know nothing about the allegations, the legal filings or the testimony.

I don't feel like I've missed anything.

[Kali]

61. in case people want to actually judge for themselves

his testimony starts about an hour and 2 minutes in, goes to about 5:30 and you can slide past the breaks so it isn't a full 4.5 hours.

[mzmolly]

63. Thank you.