Purely speculative but - fully electric cars stuck in the I95 mess?

[underpants]

I can’t find any actual information one how long EV’s could last in such a situation. Sitting still but producing heat.
Lots of people were caught unprepared whether in gas, hybrid, or electric.
I can’t find any story with an interview with someone in a fully electric car.
Is it just a situation that few cars are designed to do what was needed?

I found this article by Charles Lane at theWashington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/04/imagine-virginias-icy-traffic-catastrophe-with-only-electric-vehicles/
Again this is purely speculative.

DU thoughts?

[hlthe2b]

1. My thoughts? Glad I bought a hybrid.

[underpants]

2. 😁

I am too. Love it.

It’s small too. But easier to heat.

I am curious how this will be studied if it is.

[dsp3000]

7. Hybrids are great. Not sure why they are reviled by alot of people who want pure EV's other than

politics or narrative. i'm totally happy with my 3 row SUV getting 27 MPG City and 27 Hwy while giving me 320 HP and handling well. There are even better hybrids out there now too, and PLUG IN HYBRIDS which i think are great for everyone. Rav 4 Prime is probably perfect for 90% of driving situations.

[Calculating]

27. Because they have more things to fail

It's a maintenance nightmare, they can have the failures of both an electric car and a ICE car. Also there's issues with gas sitting in the tank for long periods with a plugin hybrid. Fuel goes bad after a few months without fuel stabilizer added in. Part of why I finally got my model 3 was to get away from the maintenance nightmare of my last ICE car. Every year would bring new engine problems, new leaks, new parts failing.

[onenote]

33. We have 2 hybrids - one a 2004 and one a 2014

We've not had any significant maintenance issues with either of them (knock on wood).

[dsp3000]

35. teslas has their share of problems too...

I guess realistically people could have a use case where they would NEVER use gas in their plugin hybrid. not that hard to run through the gas though. it seems like such an edge case to me that can be easily mitigated.
Toyota hybrids are extremely reliable by the way. I have an Acura MDX hybrid w/ 80K miles and no issues yet. I admit that i am a huge car junkie and gearhead and yes i do have tesla stock so i wish them the best and acknowledge we're moving to EV's.... but just like nuke plants, hybrids have their place in today's goals in reducing emissions

[Auggie]

3. Mmmm ...

yeah, that's a problem. Guess it would make sense to carry emergency supplies at all times.

[58Sunliner]

4. As a poster noted-

"In a recent YouTube video done by Björn Nyberg a test was performed using a standard range Tesla model three at freezing temperatures. With a full battery the Tesla managed to keep the cabin at a comfortable 70°F for 71 hours. This was while the vehicle was in park simulating the situation that was experienced by many this week. A modern gas car consumes considerably more energy while in park to keep the cabin warm and would not provide the same benefits of an electric vehicle utilizing a modern heat pump. This article reaches the conclusion that like many others is 180° from reality."
The issue with ICE is gas usage, and the carbon monoxide risk, especially in snow. Doesn't look like Charles researched this very well. Some EV cars when running in cold temps can use more power.

[OAITW r.2.0]

6. +1

TY

[underpants]

11. Great points.

No he didn’t research it mostly because he couldn’t possibly have time to research it. No actual information is shared. I don’t know that there is publicly available on this.

The size of some EV’s or hybrids could also play a role here. Sedans are now being made as EV’s but many of those even seem a bit smaller than conventional ones. Another factor is how many and who is in the car. Tim Kaine, for instance, was alone so he could certainly need less heat and wouldn’t have a kid, pet, or older person to care about. He ran his car about 10 minutes every hour.

[Shermann]

5. Conservatives are going to run with this story in 3...2...1...

Sitting idle and generating heat for the cabin is one scenario where an ICE vehicle will easily outperform an EV. ICEs are extremely efficient at generating heat and have more stored energy to draw from. The Tesla heat pump gets closer, however.

[Celerity]

12. Post 4 just eviscerated your claim.

[Shermann]

17. Video link?

No link = no claim to "evisceration".

[NickB79]

23. It took literally a minute to find it on Youtube

Just searching for "Bjorn Nyberg Tesla Winter"

[USALiberal]

32. Maybe next time try googling it. Research Google. Nt

[underpants]

19. They already have

I heard this on talk radio (sorry) but again it was just asking a question for the audience to finish for themselves.

[W_HAMILTON]

37. Are you going to edit/delete your post now that you've been proven wrong?

Or are you going to keep it up, thus amplifying -- or maybe even getting the ball rolling? -- on false conservative attacks?

[VMA131Marine]

8. A lot of the newer EVs with range over 200 miles

have battery packs large enough to power a house for a day or more when fully charged. The Mustang Mach E for example comes with a 70 kWh pack in its base version that can be upgraded to 91 kWh. If the heater draws an average of 1 kW of power then the battery is going to last for at least a couple of days assuming it started out fully charged.

[Shermann]

9. M3 resistive heater is 2,170 watts

But the heat pump version is 735 watts.

https://electrek.co/2020/12/03/tesla-model-3-heat-pump-comparison-results/

[VMA131Marine]

28. Note I said "average power"

Those are peak power numbers. Average power consumption will be a lot lower assuming you set a reasonable interior temperature. Set the climate control to 60-65F and the battery will last a long time. Note that, cruising on the highway, the drive motor of an EV will be using 15-20 kW and you can do that for 3 or more hours if the range is over 200 miles.

[multigraincracker]

10. For a couple of bucks each

you can get a bunch to keep in the car.
Space blankets.

[underpants]

13. Yeah.

Peanuts water and blankets are good to have. I have an old LL Bean blanket in my car. My wife packed a survival bag for me - it’s our old diaper bag.

[multigraincracker]

14. My luck...

If I have it I’ll never need it.

[Kaleva]

15. some preppers swear by a rolls of TP, rubbing alcohol and suitable cans

Below is just one of many vids that show how to make one:

[Disaffected]

18. Sounds risky to me.

Have these devices actually been vetted by a qualified authority? I would worry not so much about noxious fumes such as CO but by oxygen depletion and CO2 buildup. The author of this vid mentions cracking a window but seemingly as an option. Using one of these things in an unventilated space could have a bad outcome(?).

Using one or two candles and emergency blankets to take the chill off seems like a better option.

[Kaleva]

20. I wouldn't use a large one but a small can stuffed with cotton balls may be an option

[Disaffected]

22. Yeah, size does matter.

Another concern though is the alcohol burning out and igniting the paper or cotton. At least with a candle, if it burns out it goes out.

Sterno cans (gelled, denatured ethanol) might also be a better option as AFAIK do not use an (combustible) absorbent material.

You gotta have ventilation though as even apparently clean burning carbon containing substances can produce carbon monoxide.

[Disaffected]

16. A big disadvantage of EVs

in such a situation is that, if the battery dies, it cannot be recharged on location and would have to be towed whereas an ICE can have a can of gas added and, jump started if necessary. All that is pointed out in the article and there seems to be no practical way around it at least now. An ICE can also have gas added solely to keep the vehicle warm if it cannot be moved for a while.

I've wondered why EVs do not offer an fuel burning cabin heater as an option for cold climates. It would go a long way to preserving range in cold weather and could be constructed to run on a variety of fuels such as ethanol, methanol, diesel or naphtha. As well such a device would have very low emissions (other than CO2), unlike an ICE.

[caraher]

21. A fuel burning cabin heater was part of a compressed air car design I saw

An Indian company had been developing a car powered by compressed air, and in the cabin they had little oil-fueled heaters.

I think the biggest barrier is perception - it would feel too "low tech" and we're still very much in the early-adopter, tech lover phase of EV buying.

[Disaffected]

25. Yes, it would seem counterproductive and a bit weird alright

to place a fuel burning device in an EV. I still think it would be a good option and could likely be installed for a cost comparable to a heat pump.

The technology is well developed as one can purchase these devices for ICE vehicles to warm the engine and cabin where a plugin is not available for conventional cabin and block heaters. I almost bought one years ago as the company parking lot did not have plugins available.

[Ron Green]

24. EV's are not the answer.

The answer is stop driving. Build a world that doesn’t depend on cars.

And I drive only an EV.

[fishwax]

26. I have a plug-in hybrid, and heating the cabin requires very little of the battery power

When I use the front defrost, it will sometimes automatically kick in the gas engine even if I am operating in a fully electric mode, and I suspect that this is because not having a clear front windshield is a safety hazard. (The rear defrost, on the other hand, does not kick the gas engine on.)

I have worked in the car while stopped in cold weather (not in traffic, just in a parking garage) for as long as an hour, turning on the heat occasionally, and it didn't take more than 2% of the battery power. (I can run about 30 miles on pure battery.) This leads me to believe that a truly electric car could last a long time under such conditions. Additionally, I have heated seats, and it is much more efficient to heat the seat (which would also keep one's body temperature in a safe zone) than to heat the air in the car. So a car would have to be stuck for a long time (or would have already have to have been very low on battery power) for it to be a real concern.

[underpants]

30. Thank you.

My hybrid doesn’t have heated seats or cruise control. It was a fleet car I got a great deal on.

Thanks for the first person knowledge

[FakeNoose]

29. Yeah, the idea of getting stuck in an electric vehicle is scary

I don't know that I'd ever buy one. If I do eventually get one, I'll make sure I have a gas-powered car to drive during bad weather and long trips. The EV just doesn't inspire my trust under adverse conditions. You know, I'm already 70 years old. How many more years will I be driving? I don't think the electric cars are ready for prime time yet.

[Liberal In Texas]

31. You might actually be better off in an EV than a gas car.

All vehicles are different. Some gas hogs wouldn't last as long as, say, a Honda Fit sitting idling running a heater. Some EVs have better systems than others and different sized batteries. Some estimates I've seen say a Tesla could run 3 days on a full charge.

...there’s a ton of misinformation out there about electric vehicles and much of it centers on whether you’re likely to run out of juice in a traffic jam. Research has shown that EVs can preserve their battery power rather well even if they’re stuck in traffic with music, air-con and headlights on.

A study from Which? says you can relax. The consumer group based their findings on data taken from a Volkswagen ID.4 EV by running the air conditioning and stereo and playing video in the rear seats for one hour. Over the course of the test, the battery was drained by just 2%. Assuming you began with a full charge in the VW battery, it would take a traffic jam almost 50 hours long to completely drain the battery.

And the test was pretty exhaustive as the air conditioning was placed on its maximum setting, the headlights were on in their automatic setting, both front seat heaters were cranked up to a maximum setting, a tablet was streaming a film, and it was plugged into the USB charging socket.

Without the internal combustion engine to produce heat for cabin comfort, electric car heaters must work harder to maintain a comfortable environment for the passengers. In answer to that problem, some electric cars - and likely more in the future - will use heat pumps which operate far more efficiently than regular air conditioning and heating systems. -https://www.autoevolution.com/news/the-arguments-against-a-nation-packed-with-electric-cars-and-trucks-171878.html

Plus there is a lot less, if actually no, possibility of carbon monoxide poisoning. Give me an EV or an ICE car every time.

[underpants]

34. Well thank you. There is research.

Of course there is. This was very helpful.

[cadoman]

36. you can play what ifs all day long

Yeah sometimes an event happens and one tech performs better.

We had all sorts of utility outages last year. Electricity went out and I felt smug because I had some gas appliances and could at least have a hot pot of water, for instance. Well then the gas supply vanishes (somehow?) and because I'm so concerned about the cost I pretty much nuke all the gas usage too.

A day later the water went out also because a pipe in the street burst. I was actually sitting there for a bit wishing I had a wood burning stove (!) as a backup. It was a rough couple days.

If an event occurred that caused gas supply to collapse or gas stations to be empty, EV owners would get to play the same smug game. Really it's just not a constructive response for anyone but I guess it can be fun noodling people on their choice of products.