Krugman: THIS IS NOT ABOUT STIMULUS.

[Roland99]

Link to tweet

Many of the headlines on the new administration offer get it wrong by emphasizing the headline cost, which makes it sound serious. The key thing is the refusal to extend unemployment benefits, which is cruel and stupid 1/

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5fd03846c5b652dce5840381/amp

THIS IS NOT ABOUT STIMULUS. As some of us emphasized all along, when a pandemic is raging the goal shouldn't be to goose the economy but to provide disaster relief to those who can't work because their usual jobs spread the virus 2/

This was true at the beginning: 3/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/opinion/coronavirus-economy-stimulus.html


And it's true now, as our negligence has created a wave of infections and deaths bigger than we suffered in the spring 4/
Image

Sending everyone a $600 check totally misses the point. Most people don't need it; meanwhile it's utterly inadequate for those who do need help. Why would anyone propose swapping out unemployment aid for this? 5/

I actually don't know where this is coming from. One possibility is that Trump, still deluded in the belief that he can steal the election, wants another round of checks with his name on them 6/

Another is that Mnuchin is just stupid, that after all this time he still doesn't understand the basics of pandemic economics. OK, I guess these aren't mutually exclusive 7/

Somehow this makes me even angrier than McConnell's stonewalling. MM is at least evil in an understandable way. What we're seeing here, in the final economic act of the Trump admin, is a special mix of cruelty and cluelessness 8/

[Klaralven]

1. It's based on the fallacy that if we just goose the economy we can get back to where we were

But the old economy isn't coming back.

Jobs like dining, tourism, etc. that are supported by discretionary spending by the middle class won't come back given their lack of spending power in the new economy.

[OldBaldy1701E]

5. But that is the point

Those who had power and wealth in the old economy are demanding it return. And, they are willing to let the entire country collapse if they don't, then they can go elsewhere and recreate the old economy. They refuse to do anything. They refuse to help anyone but themselves. They are delusional and have been for some time now. Why are we still sitting here suffering?

[Roy Rolling]

11. Selfishness

People have been delusional for a long time, it’s just been hidden by the abundance of resources and strength from giving to others America has benefited from.

Now the test of having to wear a piece of cloth over our face to retain our economic and moral standing in the world and 74 million people go AWOL with bone spurs.

Those in power and wealth have accomplished it by recruiting at least 74 million idiots to fight 80 million reasonable voters.

[OldBaldy1701E]

20. Hear! Hear! (n/t)

[KPN]

24. +++++++++

Well said.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

30. Wow. Thank you, well said

[dchill]

31. +1,000,000!

[handmade34]

2. yes

"a special mix of cruelty and cluelessness"

[GopherGal]

6. Cluelessness?

I think it's more like pure cruelty.
They know help to the "little guy" is what's needed, but don't want the new administration to see the benefits of it. I think it's cruelty and spite.

[KPN]

25. Mnuchin is clueless. He's never experienced wanting something

he couldn’t have because he couldn’t afford it in his entire life. Couple that with his arrogance — which he has demonstrated clearly on more than a few occasions in his time in the public eye — and how could he ever understand what it feels like or even what it is to not know how you are going to be able to make rent, pay utilities, and buy food and clothing for the kids. That’s the definition of cluelessness.

I get and actually agree with your point — but it’s also cluelessness. Cruelty and cluelessness.

That’s why these people need to go — permanently. Cluelessness is dangerous, especially in the hands of entitled who view the poor and the average as being lazy, irresponsible and leeches.

[bucolic_frolic]

3. "Most people don't need it; meanwhile utterly inadequate for those who do need help."

That's been the problem all along. They gave $1200 to people still working, and augmented unemployment payouts for those collecting it. So people making $100 grand got juiced, while subpoverties got $1200.

[TexasBushwhacker]

18. Actually, there were income limits for the $1200 checks

If you are single with an adjusted gross income of over $75K, you did not get the full $1200.

Head of Household - $112500

Married Couple - $250K

While I agree with Krugman in principal, he does not acknowledge that the reason they sent the checks out to everyone under the income guidelines is because it got checks out FASTER than if it was need based.

He also downplays the need to "goose" the economy. Putting that money in the hands of poor and middle class Americans meant that it went back into the economy, and that helped keep some businesses stay afloat while they were waiting for PPP and EIDL loans.

The bottom line is that the COVID-19 pandemic has exposed multiple cracks in our system. Our economy may be "strong", but it is not resilient. Our healthcare system is also strong, providing you have health insurance, but it does not have enough redundancy to handle a major crisis.

Thankfully, Biden was elected and can address these issues. Now go donate to the Warnock and Osoff campaigns!

[bucolic_frolic]

23. I doubt people - poor or middle class - did anything other than bank it IF they could

and the higher up the income scale, obviously, being more likely to be saved.

[cbdo2007]

22. Yep, they stimulated the economy rather than help people.

My family definitely did not need the $3,900 they sent us. We are actually doing better this year than ever before financially and COVID hasn't impacted us financially almost at all. So we increased our investing and bought the kids a trampoline and other items because we are stuck at home more and get bored more, and got some work done to our house, and yes we did give a big portion of it to charity...but they should be giving all of this money to all of the people who actually lost jobs and teenagers who can't work at the ice cream shop that closed down, vs those of us making 6 figures who didn't lose jobs and aren't experiencing hardship.

[questionseverything]

48. Maybe have the limit be 55,000 instead of the 75,000 it was at per adult

[duforsure]

4. What's telling is how other countries gave checks out monthly large enough to prevent harm

In large enough amounts to still keep the economy clicking along, small businesses afloat, and enough for people to live on until a vaccine is available and given, while trump and republicans refused to do this. Trump and Jared got millions with PPP , while we got $1200 to live on for 8 months, and now the WH is suggesting a $600 check. That's insulting.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

7. McConnell's innate evil is so overwhelming it emanates from

his physical presence.

Whatever it is within that cruel, inhumane, sadistic creature's head would give Lovecraft nightmares..

[Hugin]

8. This is why I'm glad any time I hear someone refer to it as 'relief', instead of...

Last edited Wed Dec 9, 2020, 10:15 AM - Edit history (1)

'stimulus'.

It's not a stimulus. The tea-partiers (now Trumpanzees) turned the word 'stimulus' into a dog whistle in 2008.

It is not clear from this article if Krugman realizes much of the financial and economic doings of the government have been turned over to the Randian Objectivists (they call themselves, Libertarians) under the Turd Reich. Understand them and you understand exactly what Mnuchin is doing. They see themselves as John Galt.

"Galt is acknowledged to be a philosopher and inventor; he believes in the power and glory of the human mind, and the rights of individuals to use their minds solely for themselves. He serves as a highly individualistic counterpoint to the collectivist social and economic structure depicted in the novel, in which society is based on oppressive bureaucratic functionaries and a culture that embraces mediocrity in the name of egalitarianism, which the novel posits is the end result of collectivist philosophy."

I guess in their minds "a culture that embraces mediocrity in the name of egalitarianism" is worse than a culture that embraces mediocrity in the name of heredity. Which is what Trumpism is all about.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Galt

[58Sunliner]

9. "MM is at least evil in an understandable way"

Not to anyone who has a conscious. And we should not try to understand a sociopath. We should only seek to render them powerless in the affairs of govt.

[ampm]

12. Working on a hunger game move

The hunger games were more of a warning it gave us a view of what a gov. was capable of doing to its people also a big part of Ary Rand's thinking. They want free labor, dumbed-down critical thinkers, and mindless worker bees for food

[area51]

14. +1

Welcome to DU.

[Evolve Dammit]

13. "...a special mix of cruelty and cluelessness." That sounds right. Totally inadequate for millions.

[dlk]

15. As has been said before, the cruelty is the point

Hard to believe so many Americans are sadists, yet it can’t be ignored. How we effectively address it is the million dollar question.

[cynical_idealist]

27. ...trillion

[seta1950]

16. If only

They had just paid people to stay home, this wouldn’t have gone so far, other countries are paying people’s salaries , to isolate as needed

[Demsrule86]

32. And a friend continues to work even though she knows she was exposed...just got the job and

can't go back on unemployment...it makes the virus worse. She needs her paycheck.

[world wide wally]

17. is this being "explained" to voters in Georgia?

[stopbush]

19. When all is said and done, it's only money.

To watch as Rs refuse to provide relief to a financial crisis that was exacerbated by tRump’s incompetence and their enabling of the same reveals one thing: that Rs worship money above all things.

Why should they care that providing adequate financial relief to millions of Americans adds to our short-term debt when they have no qualms about piling onto our long-term debt? Why is it this instance of proposed spending that stiffens their austerity spines? And how can they hold onto their resistance when the CARES Act was great for the economy? Why not simply pass the HEROES Act which is based on real needs and the success of the CARES Act?

Answer: because to them, not spending money on average Americans is next to godliness. Because the money is more valuable to them than the lives of Americans. Yet it’s only money. “He who steals my wallet steals trash.”

[edhopper]

21. I have said this here and got slapped down for it.

Help for the unemployed and small businesses instead of "Everyone gets a check!".

Thank you Prof. Krugman for backing me up.

[Heartstrings]

26. I agree! nt

[LizBeth]

28. +1. We have to get there before the Dec 26 deadline. The check for all can come later, with Biden.

[Mr.Bill]

35. The only problem is if the republicans control the Senate,

you won't see another dime.

[Mr.Bill]

34. I am retired, so is my wife.

Our income, while not large, is secure even during the pandemic. No, we didn't need the $2,400. But the local small businesses we spent it at did.

[Hekate]

38. Bingo

[Calculating]

39. The checks for everyone do help the economy though

I didn't really need the $1200, but I spent it on an american product and supported jobs by doing so.

[edhopper]

40. What Krugman points out

is the economy is stalled, not because of a lack of capital, but because COVID has closed it down. The time to stimulate the economy is when the pandemic ends. Before that the resources should be used to keep people and small business afloat.

[stage left]

43. I gave a lot of mine

To Democratic candidates.

[questionseverything]

46. There are lots of people who don't qualify for unemployment

As long as your plan can help them too, it would work

[BobTheSubgenius]

29. For what may be the first time, I disagree with Mr. Krugman.

I don't believe Turtle is "evil in an understandable way." Unless PK means "predictable," or "persistently evil," what MM does defies even GOP logic. He does horrible things, just for the sake of being horrible. What ends justify these means?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

42. McConnell does not want anything to appear to come from Democrats.

His goals are to destroy most of the federal government, except the defense contractor pork for his donors, and to keep like-minded extremist Republicans in power. To accomplish the latter, he will do whatever he can to block Democrats, regardless of any suffering that might result.

https://secure.actblue.com/donate/dufor2020runoff

[mvd]

33. Oh, those Repukes are SO generous, aren't they?

We should start calling them all Scrooges. While Krugman’s “most don’t need it” statement is surprisingly out of touch, he may be right on this: the $600 is one month only and half of before. So I can see including unemployment benefits first. But the either/or is typical Repuke evil!

[kag]

36. K&R

Love me some PK.

[Hekate]

37. KnR

[Hermit-The-Prog]

41. There is an opportunity to toss Moscow Mitch in the ditch ...

Jan. 5
https://secure.actblue.com/donate/dufor2020runoff

[littlemissmartypants]

44. It's about power and control.

We're being held hostage not unlike an abused spouse. It's the use of finance as a weapon to cause pain and inflict helplessness. And it is very much a feature and not a bug.

[disalitervisum]

45. And now, a word from our sponsor, Unrestricted Free-Market Capitalism

Capitalism, your one true lord and master, without recourse or appeal, wishes you well. Thoughts and prayers.

[LudwigPastorius]

47. "THIS IS NOT ABOUT STIMULUS,...

but to provide disaster relief to those who can't work because their usual jobs spread the virus"

Can't be said loud enough. Gig workers are not drawing unemployment checks, so extending unemployment doesn't help us.

It's really fucking depressing to have worked for 35+ years, paying federal taxes, being responsible for your share of the federal government's budget, only to have it turn its back on you when a once-every-100-years disaster occurs that wipes out your means of income.

I personally knew two wonderful musicians who killed themselves this year because their work, and artistic life's blood, disappeared. That $1,200 certainly helped for a while. Hell, we're used to living on the economic edge, but the constant psychological grind of the impending loss of everything is enough to drive anyone to want to just end it.